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Rape and Incest

  1. Jan 13, 2005 #1
    Rape and incest are two of the most heinous crimes known to humanity. To augment the brutality of rape with the brutality of forcing a victim to have a child as a result of this rape would be a constant memory of such a psychologically traumatizing event and be tantamount to torture for the already scarred victim. Would this circumstance make abortion good?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 13, 2005 #2
    You are assuming that having a child would be a negative reminder. I don't believe that is correct. In fact the right approach to deal with rape is not to forget, because you can't, it is to learn to deal with it. And a child would be a help not a hinderance in that endeavor.

    How many women initially choose to give their child up for adoption and then change their mind once the child is born? This indicates that a living child is something positive for its mother.

    I am not suggesting that every case be treated the same, because they are not, but to summarily end a human life on something as frivolous as being a reminder of something bad, is immoral.
     
  4. Jan 13, 2005 #3
    Every time you spit, you kill human cells. Every time you eat, cheek cells are digested in your alimentary canal. Primitive morality gives the rapist reproductive rights, inside the victim. Real morality, educates societies regarding the rights of women; and punishes the rapist.

    Real morality and balance returns the victim to the physical state, she was in, before the rape. In Africa rape=aids. Many women are the victims of rape there, and their children die, or are born to dying mothers, there is no positive moral to this story. The lives created are destroyed in the making, creating a huge class of slave children, children with no parents, and therefore hungry and minimal futures.

    Morning after drugs would really help African women, and help them to corral their resources to better take care of the children they already have, that may already be, the product of rape.

    When rapists procreate, they pass along their uncivilized and stupid genes. That is really unfortunate for our species. Forcing mothers to spend a lifetime tending to the product of criminal acting out, is a waste of lives that could be much sweeter, with Mothers and Fathers tending to the children they wanted, together.

    You forget that primitive societies criminalize the victims of rape, your morality lets a man destroy the life of a woman and her children. In a lot of primitive situations, it is the women, that care for the offspring, and gather much of the food, and haul the water. Let us not make kings of rapists and slavers, because that is what you advocate, when you grant them reproductive rights in their victims.
     
  5. Jan 14, 2005 #4
    Dayle,

    Your response seems unclear to me. Does this mean that you find abortion in these situations to be acceptable?
     
  6. Jan 15, 2005 #5
    In the first trimester of pregnacy, I find abortion acceptible in any case. In the second trimester of pregnacy I find abortion acceptible, in the case of gentic illness, danger to the mother, very young mothers, children, who were in denial that they could be pregnant. If a female is raped, morning after drugs should be available, if a child is raped, she should be able to abort as soon as she can. Children who are assaulted or used incestuously should have rapid access to abortion, when incest is determined, or for females underage. In this nation, females are not breeding stock. The lives of women do not take a back seat to rapists, rapists do not have reproductive rights, as far as I am concerned.
     
  7. Jan 16, 2005 #6

    AiA

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    So Dayle, are you saying that murder is good under cetain circumstances, cause if you are, that is dead wrong. (mind you abortion is killing.) Why would you deny life to a child because of what happened to the mother, don't punish the child for the act of a raper man. And mind you, there is no such thing as 'incenciteve or stupid' genes, I don't know if that was supposed to be a joke or one the the dumbest comments I've ever heard. And you made references to killing germs, you realize theres a world of difference between killing a mouth germ when swollering to killing a child. I don't know why you'd compare the two. And when you say in aferica, a raped mother will most likely give birth to a child with aids, are you implying that to have aids makes one less human, one with aids can still be happy, one with out parents can still be happy, one with limited food, no family, no parents, though in an extremely difficult situation, can still be happy. Unless you believe we should nuke Africa and get rid of all those damn poor people. Cause thats what it sounds like your saying.
     
  8. Jan 16, 2005 #7

    selfAdjoint

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    To you but not to others. A zygote is "human" only in distant potential, and its life is utterly parasitic on its mother's. It just isn't a baby however much you pretend and try to win arguments by self-assumed moral superiority.
     
  9. Jan 16, 2005 #8
    Do you not have distant potential to be 105 years old? Do you not have distant potential to die in 'x' years? The 'fetus' too has distant potential to become a newborn out of the womb. Everyone has distant potential to become particular things at any time.

    Its life might be dependent heavily on the mother's, but that does not change that it is still living. You to are dependent on the rest of society. The breakdown of the macro starts with the corruption of the micro.
     
  10. Jan 17, 2005 #9
    Rapists are unfit parents.

    In the Sudan, I think that the women who have been raped, should drop the babies off at army camps and walk away from them. Leave them to the fathers to raise. There would be no abortion, but then again, there would be a lot of dead babies, because these "fathers", were rapists. They were not interested in becoming parents.

    Keep in mind, being pregnant or not, is a woman's choice. Amazingly when women can choose, then the unfit males, (rapists) do not get to reproduce. That really scares the lunatic fringe, since they are incapable of civilized living, their only hope for passing on their genetic material, is rape or enslavement.
     
  11. Jan 17, 2005 #10
    How can you just assume this? What if in a rape situation the rapist was drunk? What if the rapist is already a parent? Just because the person commits an evil act, it does not make them evil. Please support your claims, you cannot just make assumptions like the above.
     
  12. Jan 17, 2005 #11

    AiA

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    You keep on saying rapists don't have the right, well as justininiun said, just cause someone does evil, it doesn't make them evil. I lied, does that make me a lier, that means I have no chance of repentance, no chance of mercy, cause once I do something wrong, I'm branded for life for taht act. Have you ever done something morally wrong, if you have, then your wrong. That is exactly what your saying. And mine, our others morality is not our own morality, it is morality, were either right or wrong, can't be both, but were able to support our claims, your not, so till you do, i believe its safe to say that 'our' (which is all) morality, is truth.
     
  13. Jan 17, 2005 #12
    Whether you believe something is good or evil, is simply a belief. It is unsubstantial in the real world.

    What happens in real time, and the hurt it causes to others, constitutes what is good or evil. By your standards, a man could rape many women, then if your word were law, he could father many children of his rapes, and ruin as many lives as he touched, and use up these lives, in the taking care of his offspring. If he were HIV positive, he would be murdering every woman he raped, and her unborn children, and depriving the living children of their mother. Then he could repent, say some words to a priest, or an imam, write a letter, and then he could be a good man.

    Wrong. I think he should be in prison for the first rape. And the woman take a morning after pill. Then he should be in prison longer for the second rape, and the woman takes a morning after pill. Then when he rapes for the third time, he never leaves prison, and the woman takes a morning after pill. Even better would be if the woman shot him, when he made the first attempt, and would that she were an expert shot.

    In Africa, rape=murder in many cases, because of the prevalence of HIV infection. If Africans want to survive the HIV pandemic, rape needs to become a capitol crime. HIV testing needs to become a part of pre marriage health workups. The circumcision of females should be abandoned, as they are giving a lot of young women, HIV, in the circumcision process. It will take some very pragmatic measures to save the peoples, cultures, and nations of Africa. Rape is a very personal enemy of all people.
     
  14. Jan 17, 2005 #13

    AiA

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    Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that good and evil were just a self inflicted problem, like, why should you worry about evil, it only dwells in your life 24/7, and so does good, its just a matter of which you let prevail. Thats not a matter of belief, but a matter of fact. And since when was a child a burdan, who could think such crual thoughts of children?
     
  15. Jan 17, 2005 #14
    Good and Evil are concepts, created by humans to describe things that are positive or negative in ideation or effect. They are not living entities. Evil isn't running around making people do things, and then leaving these same people, so that they are suddenly not evil, and therefore good. I do not live with either good or evil, I live on earth, with regular physical phenomenon, cause and effect. I do what I do, because I choose to, just like anyone else. I need no excuses for what I do.

    Raising children well, is a very difficult and lengthy task. It is not a task that I would perform on anyone else's whim, but my own. I am not shamed by your rhetoric.

    In case your mother didn't teach you, those that tell lies, are liars. Those that steal are thieves. Those that kill, are killers. People who say children can't be, a burden, never had any.
     
  16. Jan 18, 2005 #15
    What is so traumatizing about rape compared to, say, having your kneecaps broken?
     
  17. Jan 18, 2005 #16
    Funny once again.... as always it comes to this idea of relativism.... im sure anyone would agree that someone who is a serial killer is doing wrong from any frame of reference. Therefore there are standards of right and wrong no matter what perspective you look at it from, shoot even Ted Bundy admitted what he was doing was wrong from anyone's perspective and not ok from his.
    Those who say right and wrong are relative are most of the time in my experience trying to find a way to justify a lifestyle that they live in guilt.
     
  18. Jan 18, 2005 #17
    kneecaps broken? hehe...for a machine, there would be no difference if it was fried by another machine or if it fell off a cliff.

    but for a human...bartholomew, we have something that is called feelings, when you are old enough you will understand what they are. at least i hope...

    and i, personally, do not utterly condemn neither the rapist with his stupid "genes" (hey, there's a gene for a rape...good to come among such enlightened people here...you must have all finished university but it seems none of you has even started to understand yourself. a human being)

    nor the victim if she chooses the abortion.

    you are all taking radical stances here...what is more funny is that you've only seen it on the movies, read it in books, made your opinions. perhaps heard that it happened to someone you distantly know...

    you don't have to live the life of a rapist to find out what has driven him to do this, nor do you have to be raped in order to find out why a child born out of rape would to most people be unacceptable.

    you, or me, do not know the driving force behind the rapist's decision, neither the pain of the raped woman/mand/child.

    so just shut the **** up and get on with your egocentric lives, cause some of the anwsers here made me almost puke onto the god damn keyboard.
     
  19. Jan 18, 2005 #18
    and jesus said to the masochists: "Do not do to others what you would not want to be done to yourself!"
     
  20. Jan 18, 2005 #19
    pocebokli, would you rather be raped or lose a leg to gangrene?
     
  21. Jan 18, 2005 #20

    AiA

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    I would rather loose my legs, that is, if I were a woman. Please don't come to conclusions of just cause I'm a man I can't possibally know what it feals like. One can be happy with out legs, but the sychological trauma of being raped, and even bearing a child out of it, that damge is permanent and eriplasable. The mind and soul are more important than the body. Steven Haukings, being very incapable, physically, is a perfect example, for that mind I would happily take the weelchair.

    The mind and soul are everlasting, the body isn't, it has to die sometime.
     
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