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Rape by deception huh?

  1. Jul 21, 2010 #1
    This story made me cringe: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10717186" [Broken]

    An Israeli response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0aRE6fcaE"

    What are you thoughts? I find this verdict ridiculous. According to the woman in the video, if I get in bed with someone after telling them I own a Ferrari (which I don't), I've potentially committed rape. Are there similar cases in the West?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 21, 2010 #2

    Pythagorean

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    Statutory rape is the only example of consensual rape I can think of in the west.
     
  4. Jul 21, 2010 #3
    They are messed up.
     
  5. Jul 22, 2010 #4

    Evo

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    Things are different in the Middle East. At least the Israelis don't condone murder of the victims.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001793273_honorkilling17.html [Broken]

    http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi...lestinian_women_victims_of_societal_violence/

    I don't think we, in the West, can sit back and judge. Or can we?

    I don't agree with the verdict, it's political, but I am more apalled by the atrocities against women.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  6. Jul 22, 2010 #5

    Office_Shredder

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  7. Jul 22, 2010 #6

    Evo

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    Interesting OS. I can't say that I can agree to a law that allows a woman to claim rape when she finds out that the guy she agreed to have sex with isn't rich. Doesn't that make her guilty of being a gold digging you know what? When do we start holding people responsible for their actions?
     
  8. Jul 22, 2010 #7
    You are bringing up different issue that is irrelevant to the OP case. From the OP source:

    This might not be not related to racism.
     
  9. Jul 22, 2010 #8
    This is definitely not unheard of. If a girl tells me she will only have sex with muslim men and I say great I'm muslim! Then I am definitly without a doubt in my mind raping her by my deception. I'm pretty sure these laws exist in the western world too...

    I fail to see AT ALL how this scenario can automatically be pressumed racially motivated. Aka racist.

    Now obviously simple-minded people on these forums are going to jump the gun and start making rediculous claims about how this and that could possibly happen and that means the law is bogus. They of course have to prove that there is precedent for this and show that the provisions under the given law protect such behaviour.
     
  10. Jul 22, 2010 #9
    Yeah, it looks ugly.

    But then consider, and this is a point no one does, she could have claimed it was not consensual yet she didn't. So at least she's honest about her xenophobia.
     
  11. Jul 22, 2010 #10
    Yep.

    Don't read their news. Just let them kill each other.
     
  12. Jul 22, 2010 #11
    If you're in the US then you're pretty much responsible for the ongoing excess power of the Israeli government. So aside from what you seem to be hinting at, yes you should be judging this. (It's an interesting concept, whether one should be prosecuted for arbitrary untruthfulness in a relationship, but it seems likely that a different issue is at play in this case.)

    You would be guilty of fraud. (Though from the BBC it sounds like she mistakenly presumed from the sound of his name, rather than that he deliberately misrepresented himself.)

    She would be guilty of discrimination on an unlawful basis. Surely it isn't kosher, when examining whether a person is a suitable partner, for their race (or even religion) to transparently be the sole deciding factor. If the offer of sex had been provable in writing, surely it would be tortuous if he were denied on those grounds alone. (It doesn't seem like she were unsatisfied with his cultural personality nor preconcerned with religious vows and ceremony.)

    But he is certainly innocent of violently forcing sex upon her. To classify it rape devalues that word. (E.g., How much has this newstory changed your attitude to "rape-victims" in that region?)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2010
  13. Jul 22, 2010 #12

    arildno

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    There was a time when criminalization of seduction of adults actually made some sense:
    a) In a strongly discriminatory society, where a woman was totally dependent upon a man for financial support, and her only hope in life was to find a decent enough husband, coupled with b) a societal idea that a woman once "used" was maritally useless, in such a situation, criminalization of seduction could be regarded as a rather pathetic attempt to "protect" women.*
    (An unpathetic, and much better, alternative would be to dismantle the discriminatory ideals in that society).


    People will lie and cheat in order to get into each other's bed, they will even change their underwear more often in order to make a good impression on a desired sex partner.



    *(Note that the discriminatory ideals of past times placed women in general in roughly the same sort of dependency relation to males as, for example, a patient (in particular psychiatric cases) will stand in relation to his/her doctor. And such relations are, indeed, still proscribed, and rightly so)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2010
  14. Jul 22, 2010 #13

    Hurkyl

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    Normally, the word "pathetic" has a strong negative connotation to it. You're not seriously intending that, are you? :confused:
     
  15. Jul 22, 2010 #14

    Borg

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    Hypothetically speaking, can I have an ex-girlfriend thrown in jail because she told me that she was a "nice person"? :devil:

    I agree that this makes a mockery of the term rape. Sleeping with someone the same day that you meet them clearly shows that she isn't very discriminating. She met a guy with a Jewish nickname, assumed that he was Jewish and slept with him. It doesn't really seem as though she took the time to really get to know him. As noted in the original article, what is to stop someone from claiming rape in this case?

    "Every time a man tells a woman he loves her, based on which she sleeps with him, he could be convicted of rape."

    Or, better yet, the case of https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2630422"? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
  16. Jul 22, 2010 #15

    arildno

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    With "pathetic", I meant a rather hopeless, irrational move that was way too insufficient to counter what it intended to do.
     
  17. Jul 22, 2010 #16

    Sounds like the moaning of a unhappy ***** who didnt got her way after spreading her legs.
    She should be put in jail as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  18. Jul 22, 2010 #17
    Actually, yes, those kinds of laws are pathetic (with full negative connotations). If you follow this line of thought I know a quite high percentage of women who should be in jail (for similar reasons ranging from strategic presentation to downright lies to preserve a relationship with a partner of good social position and reasonable wealth)
     
  19. Jul 22, 2010 #18
    The fact that some of your arguments are along the lines of "not wanting to have sex with a man of a different religion is wrong and illegal" is absolutely pathetic. sure, she must be pretty slutty to give it up on day one but to say that it's wrong of her to want a man of the same religion is just stupid. granted, the fact that that is grounds for rape is imo a bit ridiculous, but hey, i really don't give a ****.
     
  20. Jul 22, 2010 #19

    cronxeh

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    I wonder if sticking your wet pinky into someone's ear is considered a form of rape?
     
  21. Jul 22, 2010 #20

    Chi Meson

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    Regarding the bold statement, which post(s) are you referring to?
     
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