Reality and Energy: Exploring Others' Views

[Rader]

Originally posted by onycho
Actually in my humble opinion, consciousness and awareness are not located within the brain or its billions of neuronal connections.

I would agree with this statement but, we have to analize this a little closer and define this more than in a few simple words. It might be more correct to say that matter is conscious and aware depending on the extent of its complexity. Things of higher complexity are more conscious and aware. Consciousness and awareness use the complexity of matter to manifest itself in different levels. Consciousness and awareness seem to use matter as a doorway.

You have pointed out the problems in this metaphysics discussion. Some say that a part of this conundrum is found in those who have Alzheimers or injury to the brain. The human is no longer able to live in this physical world. The human consciousness slowly diminishes while in the 'brain' conscious awareness slowly disappears.

This is an interesting analogy also. If what i state was not so having alzheimers, getting drunk or taking drugs should not affect our conscious awareness. Biology plays a part but it is secondary, we can affect changes in consciousness and awareness by doing biological manipilations. In humans, consciousness and awareness grows from birth to death. That is the way it appears to us but that might not be the way reality really is.

It appears that all our consciousness is within a giant holograph that not only creates our brain but its awareness of our everyday life and assumption of existence.

I tend to agree, there has been much controlled experimentation on psi over the years, that does give above chance statistics, that this just may be so. The evidence is there or we do not know math statistics. More of a fact, might be that, for socialogical reasons, most scientists are not aware of it.
Dean Radin "The Conscious Universe" ISBN 0-06-251502-0


http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html

This premis would explain many things. The apparent connection of all the particles of the universe or what is on the other side of our universe border or simply the questions you have posed can be answered by a super-holographic dimensional universe.

We know there are many syconocities. We know that there are strang links between things but why do they happen, when they happen and to whom they happen is the next question to answer.

As time goes on, I think that we will begin to understand the true reality of existence minus our daily reality.

We can build and design holograms, maybe Someone thought of it first.

But this is only my opinion.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Rader

It might be more correct to say that matter is conscious and aware depending on the extent of its complexity. Things of higher complexity are more conscious and aware. Consciousness and awareness use the complexity of matter to manifest itself in different levels. Consciousness and awareness seem to use matter as a doorway.

I am having a little difficulty with your statement. Matter is conscious but I do not think it depends on any extent of complexity. In previous posts I have stated that I believe that all matter or particles in the universe are probably equally conscious and aware. Humans are very complex and yet we are composed of nothing more or less than the same subatomic matter/particles as that within a star, a mouse, a photon or even gravitons. The basic question is what makes the particles that make up humans or animals animate? What gives our particles consciousness when in my opinion all the other particles in the universe have the same cognition? As for consciousness and awareness using matter for anything I find a problem here. WHERE DID CONSCIOUSNESS AND AWARENESS ARISE AND WHAT IS ITS SOURCE?

In humans, consciousness and awareness grows from birth to death. That is the way it appears to us but that might not be the way reality really is.

I see consciousness and awareness existing in a timelessness which only manifests itself in our short reality for a short 'time' span in an infinity continuum. I do not think that consciousness or awareness grows or appears at birth or death. In my opinion, our conscious awareness existed an infinity before we were born and will continue in the same dimension for an infinity of timelessness after we leave this plane of existence in which we assume.

I tend to agree, there has been much controlled experimentation on psi over the years, that does give above chance statistics, that this just may be so. The evidence is there or we do not know math statistics. More of a fact, might be that, for socialogical reasons, most scientists are not aware of it.
Dean Radin "The Conscious Universe" ISBN 0-06-251502-0

Scientists and regular humans assume that we exist in a solid state world with awareness of things. Scientists are busy measuring and experimenting and computing that which their consciousness awareness finds present. I am not so sure that reality can be so measured.

We know there are many syconocities. We know that there are strang links between things but why do they happen, when they happen and to whom they happen is the next question to answer.

I believe that there are some questions and answers that are way beyond our finite reach. I perceive the air around me but can I measure the atoms in this air? This is only a simple illustration of that which illuminates our knowledge of things not available to our senses or knowledge.

We can build and design holograms, maybe Someone thought of it first.

Maybe everything was designed by an Originator who placed a long chain encrypted code of His design that is available to our decryption as we speak. But that is another story.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Rader

It might be more correct to say that matter is conscious and aware depending on the extent of its complexity. Things of higher complexity are more conscious and aware. Consciousness and awareness use the complexity of matter to manifest itself in different levels. Consciousness and awareness seem to use matter as a doorway.

I am having a little difficulty with your statement. Matter is conscious but I do not think it depends on any extent of complexity. In previous posts I have stated that I believe that all matter or particles in the universe are probably equally conscious and aware. Humans are very complex and yet we are composed of nothing more or less than the same subatomic matter/particles as that within a star, a mouse, a photon or even gravitons. The basic question is what makes the particles that make up humans or animals animate? What gives our particles consciousness when in my opinion all the other particles in the universe have the same cognition? As for consciousness and awareness using matter for anything I find a problem here. WHERE DID CONSCIOUSNESS AND AWARENESS ARISE AND WHAT IS ITS SOURCE?

Let me be more specific. All matter is conscious and aware and would have the potentiality, to be anything, through a decision process, with design built into it. Yes we are all built of the same waves/particles but not all systems reflect the level of consciousness and awareness equally, the determining factor is complexity. What makes things animate?, my assumption is consciousness, life, Designer. Do these three words have to be separate entities?, could they not be the same thing? What gives our particles consciousness? Complexity of matter, with hidden variables, in the design that we know nothing of yet. In our matrix, it appears to us that both matter and consciousness does evolve, but only within the context of the I.. It appears that the most fundamental building block is waves since we assume that we can see only particles. It appears that when a body returns to innate matter, there is no consciousness, awareness or life, at the level it once had. The innate matter is still conscious but only of what it can be at that level, with its potentiality to be again. As for consciousness and awareness using matter for anything, a doorway for matter to manifest the I.

In humans, consciousness and awareness grows from birth to death. That is the way it appears to us but that might not be the way reality really is.

I see consciousness and awareness existing in a timelessness which only manifests itself in our short reality for a short 'time' span in an infinity continuum. I do not think that consciousness or awareness grows or appears at birth or death. In my opinion, our conscious awareness existed an infinity before we were born and will continue in the same dimension for an infinity of timelessness after we leave this plane of existence in which we assume.

We are trying to describe the same side of the coin with different faces. I understand what you write but interpret it differently. A individual human being never makes use of that potentiality of consciousness and awareness if it dies at birth, it must live the individual life. One thing that really bothers me, is if something of what we are survives this matrix, what i refer to specifically is not only soul but knowledge of the I.

I tend to agree, there has been much controlled experimentation on psi over the years, that does give above chance statistics, that this just may be so. The evidence is there or we do not know math statistics. More of a fact, might be that, for sociological reasons, most scientists are not aware of it.
Dean Radin "The Conscious Universe" ISBN 0-06-251502-0

Scientists and regular humans assume that we exist in a solid state world with awareness of things. Scientists are busy measuring and experimenting and computing that which their consciousness awareness finds present. I am not so sure that reality can be so measured.

I am aware of the way it appears to be. Measurement is an undetermined function in our matrix, due to the fact that measurement stick keeps getting smaller, the closer we try to measure. Time also plays the same tricks on us to measure. Reality not the matrix seems to indicate, the ultimate measurement might just not have a time or measurement to it.

We know there are many synchronicities. We know that there are strange links between things but why do they happen, when they happen and to whom they happen is the next question to answer.

I believe that there are some questions and answers that are way beyond our finite reach. I perceive the air around me but can I measure the atoms in this air? This is only a simple illustration of that which illuminates our knowledge of things not available to our senses or knowledge.

Yes but then again there seems to be great evidence of things around us and not so very near us that we can perceive at any distance. What I mean is that mind seems to affect matter in ways we are only beginning to understand.

We can build and design holograms, maybe Someone thought of it first.

Maybe everything was designed by an Originator who placed a long chain encrypted code of His design that is available to our decryption as we speak. But that is another story.

Maybe

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Rader

Let me be more specific. All matter is conscious and aware and would have the potentiality, to be anything, through a decision process, with design built into it.

Whose design?

Yes we are all built of the same waves/particles but not all systems reflect the level of consciousness and awareness equally, the determining factor is complexity.

What makes one system more complex than another?

What makes things animate?, my assumption is consciousness, life, Designer. Do these three words have to be separate entities?, could they not be the same thing?

Designer = consciousness = life ~ animation? Can life create a Designer? Can consciousnes create a Designer? Does a Designer require life (as we know it) or consciousness (as we know it) as a priori for animation or the Designer's own ominscience?

What gives our particles consciousness? Complexity of matter, with hidden variables, in the design that we know nothing of yet. In our matrix, it appears to us that both matter and consciousness does evolve, but only within the context of the I.. It appears that the most fundamental building block is waves since we assume that we can see only particles.

What makes matter and particle consciousness evolve and from what do they evolve? You say that hidden variables not yet known have a complexity for particle/matter to be both conscious and animate or have these effects always been present in an infinity of timelessness? Why must we assume that the basic building block be a wave since our senses can only appreciate particles being present? Is the 'I' a wave, a particle, a consciousness or do we just not know?

It appears that when a body returns to innate matter, there is no consciousness, awareness or life, at the level it once had. The innate matter is still conscious but only of what it can be at that level, with its potentiality to be again. As for consciousness and awareness using matter for anything, a doorway for matter to manifest the I.

What makes you think that there is no consciousness or awareness or even life experience when a human returns to its basic particles?

Proposition: What if consciousness and awareness have been present in a timeless dimension that was there before you were born and continues after your Earth body dies? What if nothing evolves but is created ex nihilo like science now considers the origin or Big Bang out of a void? Just a thought or two...

We are trying to describe the same side of the coin with different faces. I understand what you write but interpret it differently. A individual human being never makes use of that potentiality of consciousness and awareness if it dies at birth, it must live the individual life. One thing that really bothers me, is if something of what we are survives this matrix, what i refer to specifically is not only soul but knowledge of the I.

Why do you think a still born baby or a baby who dies at birth not continue to use the same consciousness and awareness that we all had, have and will have on a timeless continuum? You are making assumptions from your subjective point of view but so am I... This is a discussion of the metaphysical which no one can know.

I am aware of the way it appears to be. Measurement is an undetermined function in our matrix, due to the fact that measurement stick keeps getting smaller, the closer we try to measure. Time also plays the same tricks on us to measure. Reality not the matrix seems to indicate, the ultimate measurement might just not have a time or measurement to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by our matrix or measuring sticks or time playing tricks but ultimately our finite attempts to understand the basic nature of things might just be beyond mankind's reach.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Rader

Whose design?

"Not known" but the more, the explicit orders of nature are investigated and understood, the more evidence, that there is, a implicit order that emcompasses all the explicit order in nature. I do not think design was a roll of the dice, it was intentional, although this is just only my opinion.

What makes one system more complex than another?

"Not known" but through observation and study and confirmation of evidence, it shows us that a entity which has a more complex DNA strand, demonstates, more complexity of consciousness and awareness at a higher level. The number of atoms or molecules grouped together? The number of particles that are really either or waves/particles? Thats all that is known. Sorry there is only poor answers.

Designer = consciousness = life ~ animation? Can life create a Designer? Can consciousnes create a Designer? Does a Designer require life (as we know it) or consciousness (as we know it) as a priori for animation or the Designer's own ominscience?

"Not known" You or i could answer yes or no to all of those questions. Notwithstanding these three words could be a very poor description of whatever there is "mas alla" "out there" Designer = consciousness = life and be the samething, in our terms, or quite the opposite in another way, we know nothing of. I do not think we can define this in human terms, only try.

What makes matter and particle consciousness evolve and from what do they evolve? You say that hidden variables not yet known have a complexity for particle/matter to be both conscious and animate or have these effects always been present in an infinity of timelessness? Why must we assume that the basic building block be a wave since our senses can only appreciate particles being present? Is the 'I' a wave, a particle, a consciousness or do we just not know?

"Not known" A purpose through its design, from a Will. The potentiallity of these effects would seem to have to be in an infinity of timelessness. What else do we have except the observation of the I. Physics decribes up til now, nature as, wave/particle or both. Notwithstanding Consciousness is not physical nor are emotions and may just be part of what "Mind" is. It is all and nothing, depends how you want to define this.

What makes you think that there is no consciousness or awareness or even life experience when a human returns to its basic particles?

I do not think that. There is great evidence to the contrary. OBE

Proposition: What if consciousness and awareness have been present in a timeless dimension that was there before you were born and continues after your Earth body dies? What if nothing evolves but is created ex nihilo like science now considers the origin or Big Bang out of a void? Just a thought or two...

It is a logical possiblity, that it is so. But what concerns me present, is why did Something in a timeless dimension use its consciousness and awareness to peer into what it is not. I can not know if you really understand what i am trying to say. I just know what i mean.

Why do you think a still born baby or a baby who dies at birth not continue to use the same consciousness and awareness that we all had, have and will have on a timeless continuum? You are making assumptions from your subjective point of view but so am I... This is a discussion of the metaphysical which no one can know.

I really would like to know just what you intend to mean by this. I am not sure i understand you, can you explain further. If i understand you correctly, conception would mean that a life, lived or not would be fulfilled in this timeless continuum whether the entity lived evolved and died or not in our matrix reality.

I'm not sure what you mean by our matrix or measuring sticks or time playing tricks but ultimately our finite attempts to understand the basic nature of things might just be beyond mankind's reach.

By our matrix i mean only our reality not what might be the "REALITY" I mean that we can not measure the coast of England because evertime we try to measure the next curve on the beach in smaller terms, we will end up measuring waves, i do not mean water waves. I meant that the measurement of time, depends upon the observer only.

I wish i could answer you with better answers but so much is "not known to me"

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Rader

Whose design?

"Not known" but the more, the explicit orders of nature are investigated and understood, the more evidence, that there is, a implicit order that emcompasses all the explicit order in nature. I do not think design was a roll of the dice, it was intentional, although this is just only my opinion.

In my opinion you are correct. For there to be a roll of the dice would imply that Someone had to roll them. The universe and its creations rely on each miniscule part relying on another factor without which nothing would occur as it is may be referred to as irreducible complexity. There is a - 0% statistical probability that the universe and everything in it could have come about by a roll of the dice whether by chaos or an unseen hand.

What makes one system more complex than another?

"Not known" but through observation and study and confirmation of evidence, it shows us that a entity which has a more complex DNA strand, demonstates, more complexity of consciousness and awareness at a higher level. The number of atoms or molecules grouped together? The number of particles that are really either or waves/particles? Thats all that is known. Sorry there is only poor answers.

Actually there is valid scientific evidence that every sub-atomic particle has wisdom or (intelligence) that you and I share. Even across the universe or across the room particles are aware of each other much like that described in a giant hologram. But like you say, the truth of everything is unknown and our beliefs probably have nothing to do with reality.

"Not known" You or i could answer yes or no to all of those questions. Notwithstanding these three words could be a very poor description of whatever there is "mas alla" "out there" Designer = consciousness = life and be the samething, in our terms, or quite the opposite in another way, we know nothing of. I do not think we can define this in human terms, only try.

What you are now saying is exactly what the Bible says about a Designer. He is unknownable, indescribable, without form or shape, cannot be seen by man, omniscient, timeless, not created and not a human being nor has human relatives. The question to answer is what existed before the Big Bang and what was a 'void'?

"Not known" A purpose through its design, from a Will. The potentiallity of these effects would seem to have to be in an infinity of timelessness. What else do we have except the observation of the I. Physics decribes up til now, nature as, wave/particle or both. Notwithstanding Consciousness is not physical nor are emotions and may just be part of what "Mind" is. It is all and nothing, depends how you want to define this.

Okay. Do we have an observation of the 'I' or do we assume that 'we' have an observation of the whole of humanity and life forms from a universal consciousness. Something like one part of a multiple level of freewill from which our minds perceive a solid universe of particles and protons (light) from darkness? These metaphysical questions have been posed by mankind for centuries.

What makes you think that there is no consciousness or awareness or even life experience when a human returns to its basic particles?

I do not think that. There is great evidence to the contrary. OBE

What evidence do we have? No one has come back from the great beyond to tell anyone about any continued flow of consciousness. We humans simply hope and want to believe that this life is not all there is but there is no valid evidence to the contrary.

Proposition: What if consciousness and awareness have been present in a timeless dimension that was there before you were born and continues after your Earth body dies? What if nothing evolves but is created ex nihilo like science now considers the origin or Big Bang out of a void? Just a thought or two...

It is a logical possiblity, that it is so. But what concerns me present, is why did Something in a timeless dimension use its consciousness and awareness to peer into what it is not. I can not know if you really understand what i am trying to say. I just know what i mean.

Your are asking the eons old question of WHY and HOW would a Designer do what He did for us in the creation of our universe and existense. The only answer I have been given is that He wants us, His creations to assist in the continued creation on this the seventh day. If you think about it, creation continues forward each micro-second to micro-second. Everything is being renewed and changes on our level and the universal level continue from instant to instant. Our role in all this is said to use our freewill to choose to create or destroy the Creators continuous changes.

Why do you think a still born baby or a baby who dies at birth not continue to use the same consciousness and awareness that we all had, have and will have on a timeless continuum? You are making assumptions from your subjective point of view but so am I... This is a discussion of the metaphysical which no one can know.

I really would like to know just what you intend to mean by this. I am not sure i understand you, can you explain further. If i understand you correctly, conception would mean that a life, lived or not would be fulfilled in this timeless continuum whether the entity lived evolved and died or not in our matrix reality.

What I think is that what we call life is nothing more than 'freewill' on a continuum in the same timelessness (singularity) that has existed forever. That for a short 'now' time, this freewill becomes what you refer to as the I and we are allowed to assume a solid reality with laws of physics, a body, a brain, a universe, flowers, clouds, water, etc. I do not understand your words matrix reality. I do believe that the Designer has created an encrypted code or blueprint of everything like humans now understand to be in the DNA molecule which is said to form one cell into a differentiation of cells that form our bodies. This is irreducible complexity but on a greater level, a similar code occurs in a string of letters numbering 308,504 letters long. But that is another story and this blueprint is now being studied by many scientists and cryptologists around the world. Now that we have very powerful computers, this code is slowly being revealed but only the surface of the code has been found to this point.

 

[Rader]

Design

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Rader

Whose design?

I do not understand your words matrix reality.

Matrix is a situation or surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained. Our matrix reality, our world as it appears to us, our universe. Our matrix our presumed physical world of which orginates the illusion, it evolves in containment of itself. Its just the way that i use to describe a separation from the Outside peering into the inside. If the Outside is in a timeless continuum, there would be no need to evolve. Everything on the inside evolves or we assume that it does. It seems to have a direction. Mind spirit and body seems to have a direction. Not sure anyone, has ever defined this correctly, the only words to do it at hand, would be knowledge perfection complexity.

I do believe that the Designer has created an encrypted code or blueprint of everything like humans now understand to be in the DNA molecule which is said to form one cell into a differentiation of cells that form our bodies. This is irreducible complexity but on a greater level, a similar code occurs in a string of letters numbering 308,504 letters long. But that is another story and this blueprint is now being studied by many scientists and cryptologists around the world. Now that we have very powerful computers, this code is slowly being revealed but only the surface of the code has been found to this point.

If this code does exist in human DNA, it would mean that in other entities less evolved there would also be a code. It would and might also mean, that when the code reaches the micro level, that this spooky partcle movement may hold a clue to why particles weight, what they do, and act the way they do.. If a design code in humans was found, this would be to humans what the four laws of nature are to physics. That seem like a long way off. Do you have a link to this research?

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Rader

If this code does exist in human DNA, it would mean that in other entities less evolved there would also be a code. It would and might also mean, that when the code reaches the micro level, that this spooky partcle movement may hold a clue to why particles weight, what they do, and act the way they do.. If a design code in humans was found, this would be to humans what the four laws of nature are to physics. That seem like a long way off. Do you have a link to this research?

Actually this 'code of everything' does not exist in human DNA. The code exists in a combination of 26 individual letters much like the four DNA letters but forming 308,504 letters in a long string. The letters are thus placed in an infinite number of four dimensional formats so that no matter how many letters are in the width, height or depth the proximity of the letters form related clusters of significantly related historical and archeological known events. The crytography of this document is not only highly debated but many attempts have been made to debunk the methodology and mathematics have been pushlished. The fact that the code debunkers fudged the math as done with the original statistical formulas is highly enlightening.

The following site is very complex and unless you have a degree in statistical analysis, most of the material will be quite foreign to you. Included are responses to the refutations by many other scientists but the codes are very complex.

The site is very extensive:

http://www.torahcodes.co.il/