Rebuilding the GOP

  • News
  • Thread starter Astronuc
  • Start date
  • #1
Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
18,929
2,245
We are supposed to have a two party (at least) system. One party in power just doesn't work.

How will the GOP reform/rebuild? What direction does it need to take?


I heard Mickey Edwards interviewed the other day, and I like what he had to say.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Edwards

Edwards was one of three founding trustees of the Heritage Foundation and national chairman of the American Conservative Union. He is also a Vice President of the Aspen Institute and Director of the Aspen Institute-Rodel Fellowships in Public Leadership.
And he voted for Obama.

Edwards has a new book out - Reclaiming Conservatism: How a Great American Political Movement Got Lost--And How It Can Find Its Way Back
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0195335589/?tag=pfamazon01-20&tag=pfamazon01-20


I also heard David Frum several months ago during the primaries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum
David J. Frum (born 1960) is a Canadian-born Neoconservative and journalist active in the both US and Canadian political arenas. A former economic speechwriter for President George W. Bush, he is also the author of the first "insider" book about the Bush presidency. His editorial columns have appeared in a variety of Canadian and American magazines and newspapers.
Frum is not without critics.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1975915/posts

Frum also has a book out: Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385515332/?tag=pfamazon01-20&tag=pfamazon01-20
From Publishers Weekly
In his new book, Frum (The Right Man), former speechwriter to President Bush, offers a conservative blueprint for accommodating challenges central to the next half-century of American life. Drawing on his expert knowledge of domestic politics and foreign policy, Frum shows how Republicans must evolve in accordance with the challenges and fluidity of contemporary America to win hearts, minds and elections. After staking out viably conservative positions on the salient political battles in America-healthcare, education, the economy, foreign policy, embryonic stem cell research, taxation and the like-Frum shines when dealing with the grand strategy of taxation, particularly his pro-growth model for accommodating domestic spending obligations such as social security. His analysis is particularly striking in its advocacy for consumption taxation in lieu of taxes that stifle investment and free enterprise. Taxes aimed at upper-class consumers rather than savings and investment is a provocative idea worthy of consideration. . . . .
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
46
Rebuilding the GOP will be difficult, IMHO. There are factions of the party, like the neo-cons, that have incredible leverage with respect to money and influence in businesses, there are traditional fiscal conservatives (like myself) who have been turned off by the fake trickle-down "economics", and there are very conservative religious factions that have been co-opted to "turn out the base". There are, of course, many more factions of the GOP and a practically infinite number of motivations of its various members. I would love to see the party re-define itself, reject the Reagan bigger-government philosophy (I voted for him the first time and loathed him after he grew government by over 25% in his first term and gave tax cuts to all the rich people and businesses). We need a multi-party system of government, not wild swings between two parties that in practice are no different from Coke and Pepsi or Newsweek and Time.

I would like to see the US move toward a form of government that allows locally-elected representatives to form coalitions, and then elect a head of state. The form of government we have now (including the electoral college) was crafted to address the difficulty and time-delays in travel and consensus over 200 years ago. It is not sacrosanct, and it is anachronistic.
 
  • #3
russ_watters
Mentor
19,946
6,436
I reject the premise of the thread. Considering that Obama's popular vote margin was relatively small despite getting a big boost from a recent stock market meltdown and presumed coming deep recession, I would have to say it was a pretty competitive election. Obama backers consider Obama to be just about the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if he can't win a dominating victory under those conditions, either he isn't the superstar Democrats think he is or the Democratic ideology isn't as dominant as they think it is.

So to reframe the question slightly: what does the GOP need to get back into the White House and gain seats in Congress? Well, given that the economy is unlikely to have a spectacular rebound in the next few months, Obama will have the best domestic situation to enter the White House under since Reagan. The economy will come back next year and by 2012, we'll be in the middle of a period of expansion. So he's pretty much guaranteed to win a second term.

At the same time, Americans will not like the direction the country is going under his and the Democratic Congress's leadership. Obama's other flaws won't be enough to keep him from winning a second term, but they will be enough to get the Republicans back in control of Congress by 2012.

The biggest X-factor I see in those predicions is foreign policy. Foreigners love Obama because they want a wet blanket as President of the US. People worried that Bush might spark another Cold War, but forget why the last one ended: The Russians were afraid of Reagan. Thought he was just nuts enough that he might nuke them. There will be no fear of Obama from our enemies and as a result, you will see them taking very aggressive action over the next four years. How bad it gets will determine if Obama can win a second term, but since foreign policy always takes a back seat to the econonomy, we'll need a full-on 2nd Cold War and/or explosion of violence in the Middle East to knock him out. That's not out of the realm of possibility. I'm sure Putin and Kim Il threw themselves a big party when Obama was elected, just like everyone else did.
 
  • #4
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
46
I reject the premise of the thread. Considering that Obama's popular vote margin was relatively small despite getting a big boost from a recent stock market meltdown and presumed coming deep recession, I would have to say it was a pretty competitive election. Obama backers consider Obama to be just about the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if he can't win a dominating victory under those conditions, either he isn't the superstar Democrats think he is or the Democratic ideology isn't as dominant as they think it is.
The election was not all about Obama. The GOP sustained some significant losses down-ticket. Also, we don't elect presidents by popular vote (remember President Gore?) but by electoral vote, and the Obama campaign did a bang-up job locking McCain out.

The biggest X-factor I see in those predicions is foreign policy. Foreigners love Obama because they want a wet blanket as President of the US. People worried that Bush might spark another Cold War, but forget why the last one ended: The Russians were afraid of Reagan. Thought he was just nuts enough that he might nuke them. There will be no fear of Obama from our enemies and as a result, you will see them taking very aggressive action over the next four years. How bad it gets will determine if Obama can win a second term, but since foreign policy always takes a back seat to the econonomy, we'll need a full-on 2nd Cold War and/or explosion of violence in the Middle East to knock him out. That's not out of the realm of possibility. I'm sure Putin and Kim Il threw themselves a big party when Obama was elected, just like everyone else did.
The "Reagan defeated the Russians" argument is neo-con Kool-Aid. The Soviets had built an empire that they could not sustain, and Reagan happened to be president when it came tumbling down. The right-wing likes to cherry-pick positive things that happened while Reagan was in office and attribute them all to him, while glossing over some really bad stuff. Stuff like stealing weapons from our arsenal and selling them to a state that sponsors terrorism, and which was an avowed enemy of the US, in order to create a slush fund of cash to finance an unlawful war to overthrow a democratically-elected government in Central America. Have sex with an intern? Get impeached. Commit treason? Get a national airport and an aircraft carrier named for you.
 
  • #5
LowlyPion
Homework Helper
3,090
4
I reject the premise of the thread.
Reject all you want. The fact remains that the GOP has seemingly destroyed itself in this last election. More than the glass ceiling was shattered. The fanatical Faith based social issue conservatives by exerting their activism and expressing their idolization of their simple minded Miss Congeniality, have apparently managed to alienate the moderate wing of the party that tends toward more compassionate solutions, to the extent that they are no longer choosing to associate themselves with the party. The number of Obama endorsements from previous Republican luminaries was more than rain drops on the roof. It sounded to me more like a wildebeast stampede.

The Republican tent just got smaller.

So long as the current remaining Republican right wing die hards attempt to cling to their strategies of division and turn their backs on the New Testaments of their Bibles, I suspect that they will continue to founder in a potential well of their own making.
 
  • #6
Bystander
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
5,198
1,221
(snip) The economy will come back next year and by 2012, we'll be in the middle of a period of expansion. (snip)
Sounds like you've given the "economic crisis" about the same 10-30% chance of being real as I have. However, if "the solution" the dems see is to "ease the credit crunch," (BO on the news last night) they might succeed in turning it into a real, long-term recession. Then the scenario becomes one in which two years of clueless, expensive, ineffective flailing about is followed by republican takeover of the house in two years. Pretty much the usual two-party comedy.


The biggest X-factor I see in those predicions is foreign policy. (snip)
One or two more press conferences about crossing the Afghan-Pakistani border and that won't be much a mystery. Or, he can cut and run in both theatres and reconfirm the party's reputation as being only slightly less reliable an ally than the French, and achieve the same result.
 
  • #7
mathwonk
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
11,061
1,252
russ, you keep this thread from being boring.
 
Last edited:
  • #8
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,232
210
Republican campaign consultant and advisor who has worked on a number of high-profile political campaigns in the United States

...Rollins is best known for his work as National Campaign Director to Ronald Reagan in the 1984 presidential election in which Reagan won 49 states
wiki

According to Ed Rollins,

the Republican Party no long exists. It has been crushed.
- CNN panel discussion

Yes folks, the neo-cons have been mortally wounded. The country is finally moving beyond this nonsense.

Obama got 2/3 of the young vote.

Rollins commented that the Republicans have become the party of white, Southern voters. I would add "old" to that line.

Thanks to President Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rummy, and the entire cast of disgraced characters who helped to destroy the party.
 
Last edited:
  • #9
299
1
Rollins commented that the Republicans have become the party of white, Southern voters. I would add "old" to that line.
Do you know specifically how well they did in the southern white youth?
 
  • #10
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,232
210
Do you know specifically how well they did in the southern white youth?
No, I haven't see any data on that, but it can be seen that Obama did well in many southern counties, and you can bet this didn't come from the old white folks.

I don''t have a link handy, but see the NY Times county by county map.

Something else to note that is that Obama carried every demographic in the PEW poll except voters over 65.
 
Last edited:
  • #11
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
46
It is my sincere hope that the Republican party can be rebuilt, and that it will feature real conservatives in its reincarnation. I have tried to stay independent, apart from years in which there was a primary candidate that I REALLY wanted to support, and registered as either Dem or Rep to do so. I have not been able to support the Republicans much in recent years, as the Gingrich/Rove/DeLay machinations hijacked the party and betrayed its conservative roots. I am proud to say that Margaret Chase Smith and Bill Cohen came from Maine. Either would have made a great presidential candidate in their day.
 
  • #12
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,232
210
It is my sincere hope that the Republican party can be rebuilt, and that it will feature real conservatives in its reincarnation.
I say let the Southern fundamentalists have the Republican brand. It is time for a new Conservative party to emerge.

I don't think that will happen, but that would be my preference - a clean break.
 
  • #13
ultimablah
I'd like a lot more than two parties in power; bipartisan systems tend to be rather dominating, even when other view points are better, but under-advertised and "untraditional".
 
  • #14
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
46
I'd like a lot more than two parties in power; bipartisan systems tend to be rather dominating, even when other view points are better, but under-advertised and "untraditional".
I agree whole-heartedly. Reform of the entire electoral system would be required, since the two major parties have essentially hijacked the system to their own ends.
 
  • #15
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,232
210
It will be interesting to see what economic platform is chosen. Supply-side economics, and trickle-down theory, are dead for the forseable future.
 
  • #16
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
46
It will be interesting to see what economic platform is chosen. Supply-side economics, and trickle-down theory, are dead for the forseable future.
I certainly hope so. It may be time for our government to get a little anti-monopolistic once again. "Too big to fail" seems to equate to a license to engage in extortion in the minds of some neo-con economists. In my opinion, "too big to fail" is equivalent to "too big to exist" as a single entity.
 
  • #17
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,232
210
I certainly hope so. It may be time for our government to get a little anti-monopolistic once again. "Too big to fail" seems to equate to a license to engage in extortion in the minds of some neo-con economists. In my opinion, "too big to fail" is equivalent to "too big to exist" as a single entity.
Yes, we can't have the world's economy held hostage by corporate crooks. But what do we see instead? We see failing companies merging to create even bigger companies.
 
  • #18
174
0
what doNOT see is any good way to reinpower the FAILED IDEAS of the current GOP
the VOODOO FAILED tax cuts just created bigger debts
the claimed downsizeing of the fed gov never even started
the dereg failed and caused this crash and at least a recession if not a world wide depression
their morals based on fairytales DONOT WORK look at palin's own kid

unless they change their out look to a more middle of the road stance
something I doNOT see them doing
I fail to see any real support from the non neo-conned vast majority
for the tried and proven to fail ideas of the current GOP
 
  • #19
4,239
1
Rollins commented that the Republicans have become the party of white, Southern voters. I would add "old" to that line.
Isn't politics wonderful? If there ever is a chance to mangle the truth, it's politics.

Taking off the glass onions, a close look at the blue-red map at increasing zoom reveils the most prominent feature of political party division is urban vs. rural.
 
  • #20
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,232
210
In the end, it is the electoral map that wins elections. And the old South was mainly rural. Rural areas of California, for example, don't matter, and haven't for a long time.

I'l take my lead from a guy who has actually masterminded winning campaigns, thank you.
 
  • #21
WarPhalange
We'll see soon enough if he won because he's smart enough to run an awesome campaign, or because he spent all his time and energy focused on how to win and doesn't really have any idea what he wants to do when he gets into office.
 
  • #22
LowlyPion
Homework Helper
3,090
4
The rebuilding is underway by peremptorily trying to tear down Obama before he even starts?

The Obama recession? Now that is worth a cynical laugh after George Bush driving the economy into the toilet.
Right-wing media feeds its post-election anger
Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity dive shamelessly in, talking about the 'Obama recession' and other partisan lines.
By JAMES RAINEY, On The Media
November 9, 2008
You have to give Rush Limbaugh a perverse kind of credit. At least when he is demonizing Barack Obama, fabricating Obama policies, blaming Obama for single-handedly causing the recession and the stock market crash, he doesn't pretend to be fair.

Opening his first post-election rant against the president-elect, Limbaugh launched in with a certain relish. "The game," he told his radio listeners, "has begun."

Sean Hannity, on the other hand, insisted on feigning a post-election detente, telling his Fox News television audience last week, "I want Barack Obama to succeed."

Didn't he think anyone would notice that, just a moment later, he was back parroting the failed campaign argument that Obama is a "mystery"?

"I fear [this] is the guy that has these radical associations 20 years ago," Hannity added, an odd way of demonstrating support for the new commander in chief.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-onthemedia9-2008nov09,0,800478.story
 
  • #23
mathwonk
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
11,061
1,252
do rabid imbeciles like hannity and limbaugh matter to anyone? they seem sort of like the phony crazy "religious" lady with a pink wig on my channel 2, asking for contributions apparently from the mentally impaired.
 
  • #24
Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
18,929
2,245
Some interesting discussions from Tucker Carlson, Ross Douthat, Douglas W. Kmiec, Jim Manzi, Kathleen Parker, and Christine Todd Whitman

What should the GOP do now? Part - By Tucker Carlson, Ross Douthat, Douglas W. Kmiec, Jim Manzi, Kathleen Parker, and Christine Todd Whitman - Slate Magazine

It Was Obama's Victory, Not Liberalism's
By Christine Todd Whitman
Posted Wednesday, Nov. 5, 2008, at 2:19 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2203800/entry/2203930/

Christine Todd Whitman said:
As conservatives, we have some questions to ask ourselves today. Has the country really embraced the idea of "redistributing the wealth"? Are Americans convinced that Washington is going to have the answers to all our needs? I don't think so. One pollster I heard zeroed in on people's obsession with Barack Obama the person, not necessarily Obama the ideology, and I have to agree. When the dust settles, I don't think we'll find a liberally recalibrated nation on our hands. Obama's victory showed that the majority of the American people aren't narrow-minded and don't object to bipartisan policy solutions.

. . .
Back to Basics: Fiscal Conservatism
By Christine Todd Whitman
Posted Friday, Nov. 7, 2008, at 4:45 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2203800/entry/2204127/

Republicans Didn't Used To Talk This Way
By Tucker Carlson
Posted Friday, Nov. 7, 2008, at 2:36 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2203800/entry/2204125/

What Is Our Philosophy?
By Douglas W. Kmiec
Posted Friday, Nov. 7, 2008, at 6:25 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2203800/entry/2204170/

Tucker, Ross, Jim, Kathleen, and Christine

Missing: A GOP Philosophy of Governance
Thanks, Jim, for your response. To clarify, I don't actually believe that thoughtful Republicans, as opposed to the Ron Paul acolytes who wandered in and out of the party from the libertarian guesthouse, understand taxation to be theft. But you have to admit that all the hyperbolic caricature of Obama's middle-class tax reform as socialism during the last weeks of the McCain campaign could be misleading. That said, I'm a bit mystified to know what the difference is between modest relief to the poor and outright wealth redistribution, unless the last reference is to Bush's high-end tax cuts and the first is to the way the middle class was treated during the last eight years.
 
  • #25
Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
18,929
2,245
Palin: GOP ticket was too ‘status quo’
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/15474 [Broken]
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said Sunday that she and running mate John McCain lost because the Republican ticket “represented too much of the status quo.”

In an interview with the Anchorage Daily News posted on the paper’s site Monday morning, Palin pointed a finger at the Bush administration for souring the GOP brand, adding that it was “amazing” that the McCain campaign did as well as it did.

“I think the Republican ticket represented too much of the status quo, too much of what had gone on in these last eight years, that Americans were kind of shaking their heads like going, wait a minute, how did we run up a $10 trillion debt in a Republican administration? How have there been blunders with war strategy under a Republican administration?” Palin said.
. . . .
Huh? :uhh:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Related Threads on Rebuilding the GOP

  • Last Post
3
Replies
63
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
40
Views
4K
Replies
41
Views
5K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
41
Views
5K
Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
33
Views
4K
Replies
21
Views
4K
Replies
5
Views
3K
Top