Red rain phenomenon of Kerala - aka alien rain?

In summary: Human:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Human_blood_cell.jpgRed rain:http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2967/redrain29ng.jpgIn summary, the red rain phenomenon of Kerala and its possible extraterrestrial origin is met with skepticism by scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The things look like cells, at least superficially, but no one is sure what they are.
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  • #2
EL said:
Have you seen this?
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0601022
Any comments?

Very interesting!..being that I had stated in PF some years earlier (original forum)..that because of the:http://www.seds.org/sl9/sl9.html [Broken]

there would be some fragments that would make it back to Earth, some time in the future.

This event may be the future?
 
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  • #3
Intriguing, I must say. I'd be more inclined to suspect some type of plankton or something that had been picked up by a waterspout, but that lack of DNA is kinda weird. Any cell biologists reading this want to weigh in?
 
  • #4
Red rain phenomenon of Kerala

The red rain phenomenon of Kerala and its possible extraterrestrial origin

A paper (arxiv.org) to appear in a scientific journal claims a strange red rain might have dumped microbes from space onto Earth four years ago. But the report is meeting with a shower of skepticism from scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof—and this one hasn’t got it. The scientists agree on two points, though. The things look like cells, at least superficially. And no one is sure what they are.

“These particles have much similarity with biological cells though they are devoid of DNA,” wrote Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar of Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, India, in the controversial paper. “Are these cell-like particles a kind of alternate life from space?”.

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/060104_specksfrm1.htm

Images taken from the pdf: http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2967/redrain29ng.jpg [Broken]

What do u think these things are?
 
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  • #5
The immediate thing that I see in the world-science.net article is a complete absence of anything that implies extraterrestrial origin other than the old UFO standby:

"It is in the sky. I don't know what it is. I don't know where it came from.
Therefore I conclude that it is extraterrestrial."

In order to offer an opinion on what they are, I will need you supply me with a Ph.D. in microbiology, a fully equipped lab with supporting staff, and samples of the material in question. Insight from God would be useful too. :smile:
 
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  • #6
I don't know what they are, but they don't look biological to me. At the magnifications they're using, you should be able to see great detail in cellular ultrastructure. I see nothing but hazy blobs. What they are calling a cellular membrane looks nothing like a cellular membrane should look using electron microscopy. With the presence of Silicon in the samples, I'd be more inclined to say it was some sort of mineral.

I'm moving this thread to skepticism and debunking.
 
  • #7
i don't get it> 4 years and not identified...and this 'stuff' has been reported falling from the skies all around the world for how long now?

Why hasn't anyone done a comparison study yet?

Here's a short list collected from Forte of 'red rains' etc.

http://www.dragonrest.net/fortfiles/falls.html#red [Broken]
 
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  • #8
How they got up into the atmosphere, being so small, is probably no mystery. What they came from in such concentrations is probably a long story. They may start off as some secretion given off by swarms of insects or some liquid secreted by plants somewhere which gets swept up by wind to high altitudes where the droplets form the "shell" or membrane somehow.

They don't give what compounds they're made of, just individual elements, and it says they're mostly carbon and oxygen. What besides CO2 and CO would you get from carbon and oxygen?
 
  • #9
In the newsstory one researcher say they could be spores.
But do spores contain DNA?
 
  • #10
PIT2 said:
In the newsstory one researcher say they could be spores.
But do spores contain DNA?

Yes, they should do.

I was going to say some of the shots remind me of red blood cells, espescially with the lack of DNA, but Moonbear knows better than me I'm sure.
I hope any apocolypse-predicting nutjobs don't pick up on that. Rain of blood would probably be quit high on their list of things to look for.
 
  • #11
matthyaouw said:
Yes, they should do.
I was going to say some of the shots remind me of red blood cells, espescially with the lack of DNA, but Moonbear knows better than me I'm sure.
I hope any apocolypse-predicting nutjobs don't pick up on that. Rain of blood would probably be quit high on their list of things to look for.
At first glance, I thought red blood cells too, but when I looked more closely, they were too irregularly shaped (they really don't all look the same shape at all when you look at them in the higher magnification images), and too small. The article is saying these things are 4-10 micrometers in diameter, but looking at the scales on the figures shown, they look more consistently to be about 2 micrometers in diameter. The scale bars in the last three figures are 20, 10 and 5 micrometers, respectively. You can easily see from the last figure that they are all smaller than 5 micrometers, about half the length of that scale bar.

Just for comparison, here's an image of human red blood cells.

http://www.wadsworth.org/chemheme/heme/microscope/rbc.htm [Broken]

And, yes, spores would have DNA.

It's possible that it's fine dust from sand...it could have been the shell of some organisms broken down and worn smooth over time that formed the dust.

These are all larger sand grains, but you can see the variety of shapes and sizes in just these examples. The silicon is really leading me to think sand or silica tests of microorganisms (they wouldn't be any sort of cell or have any membrane...it's like a shell).
http://www.gc.maricopa.edu/Earth'sci/imagearchive/sands1.htm [Broken]
 
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  • #12
Moonbear said:
It's possible that it's fine dust from sand...it could have been the shell of some organisms broken down and worn smooth over time that formed the dust.
These are all larger sand grains, but you can see the variety of shapes and sizes in just these examples. The silicon is really leading me to think sand or silica tests of microorganisms (they wouldn't be any sort of cell or have any membrane...it's like a shell).
“The major constituents of the red particles are carbon and oxygen,” they wrote. Carbon is the key component of life on Earth. “Silicon is most prominent among the minor constituents” of the particles, Louis and Kumar added; other elements found were iron, sodium, aluminum and chlorine.
The trouble with your sand suggestion is that they are overwhelmingly made of carbon and oxygen. Silicon is only a "minor constituent". Shell dust can't be right either since shells are primarily calcium carbonate and there's no calcium in these things.

Red iron oxide might be what's giving these things their color, but without knowing what compounds they found rather than what individual elements, it's pretty much impossible to figure out what's giving them their attributes.
---------
In saying that carbon is the key element of life on earth, what actual compounds of carbon are we talking about that are vital for living things?
 
  • #13
http://faculty.eas.uAlberta.ca/konhauser/TEM-Microfossils.jpg [Broken]
From: http://faculty.eas.uAlberta.ca/konhauser/

Similar, no? The text is talking about silicified bacteria. I've not been able to find anything else similar.

Moonbear said:
It's possible that it's fine dust from sand...it could have been the shell of some organisms broken down and worn smooth over time that formed the dust.

I've studied microfossil shells a little, and I've not seen any that look like that.
 
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  • #14
really interesting! no sign of DNA but has oxygen and carbon. never heard of such a thing. but very mysterious.
 
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  • #16
I merged a couple of threads here...
 
  • #17
In this one the author of the link first posted claim he has made these cells multiply. He claims they multiply best at a temperature of 300. Its from 2003 though so I find it VERY weird that he doesn't mention this in the link first posted since that one is from this month...

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0312639
 
  • #18
BeerBaron said:
I was just in a discussion about this on another forum weeks earlier. I dug this pdf up that offers one scenario. A bit lengthy but it has pics of the "cells" :) .
http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0310/0310120.pdf
your right, it is lengthy! anyway the pictures were interesting. i didn't know it myself (i live in india!):redface:
 
  • #19
It definitely doesn't look like a cell. Just because it has a "membrane" and some carbon+oxygen isn't enough to call it a cell from an organism, in my opinion. And it definitely isn't a red blood cell, at least not one from earth, because our red blood cells have DNA.

Is there any evidence which makes sure that these particles have come from OUTER SPACE? There are thousand ways in which they could have been transferred to high altitudes, originating from Earth itself.

The last thing which in my opinion clarifies for me that these things are not from an organism is the absence of DNA. If the DNA has been there before but "destroyed somehow while moving around in space", I think the actuall "cells" would have been destroyed too before reaching earth.
 
  • #20
ashmanovski said:
And it definitely isn't a red blood cell, at least not one from earth, because our red blood cells have DNA.

No they don't. Red blood cells lack a nucleus and therefore have no DNA.
 
  • #21
Has anyone considered that these may be a new species adapted for life in the higher atmosphere? Anyway, is there any more info/analysis on them?
 
  • #22
Newscientist story about the alien rain:

Cockell argues that there could be a simpler explanation the red particles are actually blood. "They look like red blood cells to me," he says. The size fits just right; red blood cells are normally about 6 to 8 micrometres wide. They are naturally dimpled just like the red rain particles. What's more, mammalian red blood cells contain no DNA because they don't have a cell nucleus.

It's tough to explain, however, how 50 tonnes of mammal blood could have ended up in rain clouds. Cockell takes a wild guess that maybe a meteor explosion massacred a flock of bats, splattering their blood in all directions. India is home to around 100 species of bats, which sometimes fly to altitudes of 3 kilometres or more. "A giant flock of bats is actually a possibility maybe a meteor airburst occurred during a bat migration," he says. "But one would have to wonder where the bat wings are."

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/03/03/1427866.htm
 
  • #23
Alien rain drops??

Okay, seems this topic was already at PF, but here's a CNN link:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/06/02/red.rain/index.html
CNN said:
As bizarre as it may seem, the sample jars brimming with cloudy, reddish rainwater in Godfrey Louis's laboratory in southern India may hold, well, aliens.

In April, Louis, a solid-state physicist at Mahatma Gandhi University, published a paper in the prestigious peer-reviewed journal Astrophysics and Space Science in which he hypothesizes that the samples -- water taken from the mysterious blood-colored showers that fell sporadically across Louis's home state of Kerala in the summer of 2001 -- contain microbes from outer space.

Specifically, Louis has isolated strange, thick-walled, red-tinted cell-like structures about 10 microns in size. Stranger still, dozens of his experiments suggest that the particles may lack DNA yet still reproduce plentifully, even in water superheated to nearly 600 degrees Fahrenheit . (The known upper limit for life in water is about 250 degrees Fahrenheit .)
 
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  • #24
Thanks for the update arildno.

Panspermia anyone? :biggrin:
 
  • #25
I wonder how long it takes before it becomes worldnews. I saw it on the CNN site yesterday, but it still hasnt reached european news.
 
  • #26
So far, one preliminary DNA test has come back positive.

What does that mean? Does it mean that the test confirmed the presence of DNA in the cell?
 
  • #27
From New Scientist magazine.

Now that Milton Wainwright and his colleagues have confirmed that the Indian "red rain" cells contain DNA, it seems most likely that they are algae, and as he suggests in his letter, are not in the least mysterious, despite the date it was published (1 April, p 12 and p 25).

Researchers in Kerala suggest that the red rain could be cells of a red-pigmented green alga, Trentepohlia, but there are other likely candidates. The green algal genus Haematococcus is a member of the motile order Volvocales which forms spores and resting-stage "palmella" structures, both enclosed by thick cell walls, and very similar to the pictures that you published. The cells are strongly red-coloured by the carotenoid pigment astaxanthin, formerly called haematochrome.

One species, Haematococcus pluvialis, occurs in ephemeral rain pools and its specific name means "of rain". In arid environments, water or dust containing the cells may be picked ...

and

There appears to be an increasing tendency among scientists to come up with wild explanations when asked by the press to comment on unusual, novel phenomena. A good example is provided by comments about the recent Indian red rain phenomenon (4 March, p 34).

Red rain is morphologically similar to fungal spores or algae, as I have recently been able to confirm by microscope analysis of samples. There is no evidence that I am aware of to support suggestions that red rain is dust, sand, fat globules or blood.

Researchers in Kerala suggest that the red rain could be cells of a red-pigmented green alga, Trentepohlia, but there are other likely candidates. The green algal genus Haematococcus is a member of the motile order Volvocales which forms spores and resting-stage "palmella" structures, both enclosed by thick cell walls, and very similar to the pictures that you published. The cells are strongly red-coloured by the carotenoid pigment astaxanthin, formerly called haematochrome.

One species, Haematococcus pluvialis, occurs in ephemeral rain pools and its specific name means "of rain". In arid environments, water or dust containing the cells may be picked up by mini-tornadoes, the usually acknowledged source of bizarre objects such as the froglets, snails, small fish and other creatures deposited in storm showers.

From Guy Cox, University of Sydney

Hazel Muir presents an electron micrograph and asks, "Does it look alien to you?" Having spent quite a lot of time over the past 30 years working on cyanobacteria, the answer has to be, "No, not at all."

It looks very like a cyanobacterium (blue-green alga) of the genus Gloeocapsa or Gloeothece. In this case the red colour would come from c-phycoerythrin and there would also be absorption from chlorophyll. These both absorb strongly at wavelengths reasonably close to the reported figures. The "unusual" cell wall (or sheath) is quite typical of these genera and gives them amazing tolerance to drying: they can live just about anywhere. I have not, however, found any previous references to them living in clouds.

Sydney, Australia

Fairly recent stuff, I was actually disappointed to read it, damn debunkers :frown:
 
  • #29
I think that this is deliberate pre-mining seeding of bacterial cysts. The cysts won't function until exposed to mining wastes, and then they will thrive, methylating mercury, and chemically altering other wastes, so that they will enter the food chain, possibly disguising the origins of the waste. Halophilic bacteria in my part of the world, are working hard to send the mercury from Great Salt Lake to all parts of the world, via transient populations of waterfowl.
 
  • #30
im from Kerala :), never seen this though
 
  • #31
I think it's just volcanic ash lingering in the atmosphere and mixing with the rain clouds. Upon mixing with the water, it reacted and formed a reddish/brown hue.
The red cell form of the particles most probably are formed when it has mixed with water. I think it's primary form looks like spherical particles and upon mixing with water, it reacted, causing the indentation in the middle.
 
  • #32
I don't know if this will help. Here's a quote from a slightly related site.

Weather modification is also commonly known as cloud seeding, cloud modification, atmospheric resource management, and precipitation management. Weather Modification, Inc. specializes and excels in all aspects of this water management technology.

Specifically, we offer a complete range of services from turn-key operational programs for rainfall increase (rain enhancement), snow pack augmentation, hail damage mitigation (hail suppression), and fog clearing (fog dissipation), to technical assistance and/or technology transfer for all of these.

In addition, we can provide complete weather radar services, including interfaces with TITAN full-sky radar data archival software, a complete line of proven and FAA-approved seeding equipment, seeding aircraft, atmospheric research instrumentation, and aircraft modification for these purposes.We have been conducting weather operations and research since 1961, and constantly strive to improve all aspects of these atmospheric water management tools. We invite visitors to our Fargo, North Dakota facilities. Just e-mail us at info@weathermod.com, and we will be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

http://www.cephasministry.com/natural_disasters_chemical_trails_in_the_sky.html [Broken]

This may also help, water spouts often transport living organisms from a body of water to inland areas. One such incident delivered salmonids on to the side of a mountain where a friend lived. Other incidents have been reported where "frogs rained from the sky" and so forth.

Red algae, a toxic phenomenon of oceanic inside passages, could well be what is being reported in this case, delivered by the effects of a water spout.

http://mrbadak.com/index.php/2006/06/pictures-of-water-spouts-in-kudat/
 
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1. What is the red rain phenomenon of Kerala?

The red rain phenomenon of Kerala, also known as alien rain, refers to a series of rainfall events that occurred in the Indian state of Kerala in 2001. The rain was reported to have a reddish hue and was accompanied by strange particles that were later found to be biological in nature.

2. What caused the red rain in Kerala?

The cause of the red rain in Kerala is still a subject of debate and research. Some theories suggest that it may be due to a meteor explosion or a comet entering the Earth's atmosphere. Others believe that it could be a result of a microorganism called spores of a local lichen species, which were found in the rainwater.

3. Is the red rain harmful to humans?

There is no evidence to suggest that the red rain is harmful to humans. In fact, the red rainwater was found to have a lower pH level than normal rainwater, indicating that it is less acidic and therefore less harmful. However, it is always recommended to avoid direct contact with any unknown substance.

4. Has the red rain phenomenon been observed in other parts of the world?

No, the red rain phenomenon has only been reported in Kerala, India. However, there have been reports of similar events in Sri Lanka and other nearby regions, but they have not been confirmed to be the same phenomenon.

5. What is the current status of research on the red rain phenomenon?

Research on the red rain phenomenon is ongoing, with scientists trying to determine the exact cause of the red rain and the nature of the particles found in it. Some studies have suggested that the particles may be extraterrestrial in origin, but this has not been confirmed. Further research is needed to fully understand this mysterious phenomenon.

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