News Republican Debate SC

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Char. Limit

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Speaking of Goldwater, here's one of my favorite quotes of his: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice."
That quote also lost him the 1964 Presidential Election, with Lyndon Johnson's skillful "finger on the button" ad helping.
 

Gokul43201

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They all have advantages and disadvantages, but the hard part is that Republicans must choose between someone who is relatively unknown (like Cain) or has been thoroughly demonized by the left (like Paul).
Paul demonized by the Left?

As far as I've seen, Ron Paul is fairly well-respected by left-wing media. I've seen Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher and Jon Stewart gushing over Paul. On the other hand, Paul is constantly demonized by Fox News, Krauthammer, Rove, Cheney, etc.

Skip to 6:20 in the clip below - this is essentially common knowledge.

 
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OmCheeto

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That quote also lost him the 1964 Presidential Election, with Lyndon Johnson's skillful "finger on the button" ad helping.
Is that why he lost? Damn. I was 5 at the time. I really admired Goldwater. He made sense.

Who are you voting for in 2012 Char? I'm getting to that; "I can't even see the ballot with my glasses on" age.

I've heard that old people now give their ballots to others who are going to live past the next election cycle. Vote by mail is so cool.
 

Char. Limit

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Is that why he lost? Damn. I was 5 at the time. I really admired Goldwater. He made sense.

Who are you voting for in 2012 Char? I'm getting to that; "I can't even see the ballot with my glasses on" age.

I've heard that old people now give their ballots to others who are going to live past the next election cycle. Vote by mail is so cool.
Oh, I don't know yet. I suppose it will depend on who wins the Republican primary. If the winner turns out to be someone who I would prefer over Obama (who, despite all his detractors, isn't all that bad a president), then I'll vote for him/her. If not, I'll vote for Obama.

So put up a candidate I can get behind, GOP!
 

GW:2

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If this is the best the GOP has to offer...
it will fall on its sword in 2012 just like
it did in 2008 with losers, McCain/Palin.


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If this is the best the GOP has to offer...
it will fall on its sword in 2012 just like
it did in 2008 with losers, McCain/Palin.


.
There are a few differences. First, President will need to run against himself this time - not George Bush - lot's of sound bites. The Republican will need solid experience combined with the ability to debate.
 

Char. Limit

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There are a few differences. First, President will need to run against himself this time - not George Bush - lot's of sound bites. The Republican will need solid experience combined with the ability to debate.
It is a foolish man indeed who would run against himself. I assume you mean "run on his own merits".
 

GW:2

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I have always voted Republican...
but if they trot out more of the same...
I'm sitting this one out.



.
 

GW:2

Originally Posted by WhoWee:

There are a few differences. First, President will need to run against himself this time - not George Bush - lot's of sound bites. The Republican will need solid experience combined with the ability to debate.


It is a foolish man indeed who would run against himself. I assume you mean "run on his own merits".



Some people see Obama's foreign policy as Dubya's third term.
In that respect when Obama ran against Dubya, he ran against himself.




.
 

amwest

If your uneducated and in poverty, isn't that what it means when your told to lift yourself up by your bootstraps. Examples, like Tyler Perry, Oprah, and other rags to riches {maybe not Oprah} true stories are not common place. The start of a more equitable and civil society starts with a sound well rounded education. Tyler could read and write. Many children are barely able and quite a few adults. Ron Paul's plan though I haven't read it from the criticisms I hear - isn't beneficial to senor citizens. Also, the same criticisms or critics say it doesn't do much to lower the deficit even though it would possibly enlarge the segment of the pop. that is impoverished and shelter challenged. JMO.
I would then sugest you start by reading Ron Paul's plan for yourself and or listening to him talk about it in depth not 30sec sound bites. It can be taken as outragious, but generaly his platform is to elimiate the federal government running programs and let the states run them, if they choose to. I, and alot of RP supporters see this as better and more cost effective because the state governments/local governments are much closer to the problems. also if you cut out the federal departments/department head (who are paid closer to CEO pay than average pay) then you save money and deal with the problems better/more effiently.

btw- i know my spelling sucks.
 

amwest

That quote also lost him the 1964 Presidential Election, with Lyndon Johnson's skillful "finger on the button" ad helping.
yeah and how did LBJ work out for us americans? I've got a father-in-law and and uncle who both still have nightmares about their time in vietnam. But sure the mainstream views are the greatest and anyone thats exteam CAN NOT be listened to or taken seriously....
 

amwest

To the original topic i do like Ron Paul but i also like Gov. Johnson. I think politicians/media need to stop playing name calling games and start looking at issues and disscussing them like adults, and with more than 1min soundbites.

To the people who are against removing our bases around the world think about these questions.
1) Can we not strike anywhere in the world with our current bomber fleet stationed inside the US?
2) Can we not deploy our Navy and Marine Corps anywhere in the world with in 24hrs from our home ports via MEU/MEF (Marine Expiditionary Unit/Force)?
3) Are we liked outside the bases we have in other countries? and does this cause us more good or harm?
4) What is the cost benifit analysis of having our troops stationed in other countries vs stationing them in US states/territories?
 

Char. Limit

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yeah and how did LBJ work out for us americans? I've got a father-in-law and and uncle who both still have nightmares about their time in vietnam. But sure the mainstream views are the greatest and anyone thats exteam CAN NOT be listened to or taken seriously....
I made no judgments on the "goodness" or "badness" of either Goldwater or Johnson. Rather, I said that Goldwater's extremism quote cost him the election. This is debatable, but it's certainly not a judgement on whether Goldwater is a good person or not. There are plenty of good people who have lost elections because of things they said. One example I could name would be the presidential election of 1880. General Winfield Hancock was expected to stand a good chance and maybe even win against Republican James Garfield, but he ruined his chances of voting* when he said "the tariff is a local issue". This isn't a bad thing to say, nor does it make him a bad person. But it cost him the election.

*At least, this is generally accepted to be the case. Reference "Safire's Political Dictionary", 2008 edition.
 

amwest

I made no judgments on the "goodness" or "badness" of either Goldwater or Johnson. Rather, I said that Goldwater's extremism quote cost him the election. This is debatable, but it's certainly not a judgement on whether Goldwater is a good person or not. There are plenty of good people who have lost elections because of things they said. One example I could name would be the presidential election of 1880. General Winfield Hancock was expected to stand a good chance and maybe even win against Republican James Garfield, but he ruined his chances of voting* when he said "the tariff is a local issue". This isn't a bad thing to say, nor does it make him a bad person. But it cost him the election.

*At least, this is generally accepted to be the case. Reference "Safire's Political Dictionary", 2008 edition.
My pointing this out was about pointing out the mide set of "we can't listen to people with extream views" not calling you out. And thanks for continuing my point with your follow up!
 

amwest

I should also add for clairity, that you may not like a view or idea but for the sake of learning and having an open mind try exploring it to it's ends. You may find even the craziest ideas/people have more merit than you first give them credit for. And even if you still don't agree you can still find pieces of worth in said ideas, or common ground.
 

Char. Limit

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Here's a quote that I tend to believe:

"There is no such thing as perfect, and there is no such thing as worthless." - Zachary Fitting

Basically, nothing is flawless, but everything has its merits as well.
 

amwest

Here's a quote that I tend to believe:

"There is no such thing as perfect, and there is no such thing as worthless." - Zachary Fitting

Basically, nothing is flawless, but everything has its merits as well.
Good quote!
 

OmCheeto

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Here's a quote that I tend to believe:

"There is no such thing as perfect, and there is no such thing as worthless." - Zachary Fitting

Basically, nothing is flawless, but everything has its merits as well.
Bah!

You sound like a nutcase. But I like this Fitting guy you quote. He sounds like someone I always like to quote:

"Never say never, and never say always" - Gerhard Mahler

A whole lot easier to remember than that Fitting dude.

3 nevers and an always.
 

amwest

Bah!

You sound like a nutcase. But I like this Fitting guy you quote. He sounds like someone I always like to quote:

"Never say never, and never say always" - Gerhard Mahler

A whole lot easier to remember than that Fitting dude.

3 nevers and an always.
We're on a Physics forum, we're all nutcases!
BTW- nice quote!
 

OmCheeto

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Char. Limit

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Bah!

You sound like a nutcase. But I like this Fitting guy you quote. He sounds like someone I always like to quote:

"Never say never, and never say always" - Gerhard Mahler

A whole lot easier to remember than that Fitting dude.

3 nevers and an always.
Just to check, you know who "this Fitting guy" is, right?
 

CAC1001

Oh, I don't know yet. I suppose it will depend on who wins the Republican primary. If the winner turns out to be someone who I would prefer over Obama (who, despite all his detractors, isn't all that bad a president)
I think that's in the eye of the beholder.
 

CAC1001

amwest

I'm still unsure who i'll be voting for, i still have to switch my party affiliation to republican if i want to vote in the primaries. I do like Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. I have to much trouble trusting/believing any of the others even ones claiming to be libratarians.
 

Al68

My point is why would his campaign take the money in the first place?
Oh, that's a question, not a point. I don't know the answer.
I'm not saying it is, I'm talking about Paul's position on it.
You said Paul claimed that the Fed "secretly controlled the money supply". Do you have a source for that claim, since it makes no sense whatsoever, considering they do it openly.
Ron Paul is one of the most anti-Federal Reserve people in the government and has been so for many years now.
That's certainly true, but very different from your earlier claim.
In his book End the Fed he talks about how it is some institution that controls the money supply to the benefit of some group of wealthy elites.
Not sure what your point is. They do control the fiat money supply, and it does benefit "wealthy elites", as well as power hungry politicians. Fiat dollar inflation is effectively a tax on poor and working people. But there's nothing secret about it. Again, the fact that most people are unaware of what the Fed does does not mean that it's secret.
The thing is though is that that is a view held by the far-Right and the far-Left, the fringes on each side of the political spectrum.
Which is why some on the left have a soft spot for Paul. He's more libertarian than conservative.
According to Paul, the Federal Reserve does not do those things openly, that is why he wants to "audit" them.
I think you're confused here. Some of the internal operations of the Fed are secret, but the fact that they control the money supply is not.
As for government agencies, I agree there are a lot we would probably be better off with if we got rid of them. But Paul wants to shrink the government to the point where no income taxes would be needed (which would only be doable if we want to go back to the 1800s level of government) I am not a Constitutional scholar, but I know that Libertarians such as Paul seem to have a view of the Constitution that suits their own views on various things (for example, they'll claim the Federal Reserve is un-Constitutional, the Patriot Act is un-Constitutional, etc...)).
I think you're missing the crux of that relationship. The reason the constitution "suits the views" of libertarians is because the constitution was written and approved by libertarians. The 1800s level of government was the level and type of government authorized by the constitution. There have been amendments since then, but none that are relevant here.
The UN may be openly anti-gun, but that doesn't mean they want to "take away America's guns." I mean I am sure they would like to, but that's nothing to be concerned about.
So they don't want to, but they do want to, but just don't worry about it? I'm sure you didn't mean that the way it sounds.
Many of his views are out there on the nutty Right.
Again, such a claim just has no value in a legitimate discussion. Paul is a strong believer in classical liberalism, as were the US founders, and as am I. The fact that it's an uncommon view today doesn't make it "nutty".
 

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