Republican lies used to trick the public

  • #1
Ivan Seeking
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Main Question or Discussion Point

A list of ongoing lies seems appropriate at this point. I will list my top six.

1). The media is liberal

Clinton was more than ample evidence that the media goes after anyone possible. They only seem liberal because the Republicans give them so much more to attack. This has been true for most of my life; going back to Nixon.

2). Republicans are fiscal conservatives :rofl:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=90511

3). Here is the lie that gets me the most: We are fighting the terrorists in Iraq.

My uncle still thinks that Saddam attacked New York - this is the thinking that gives Republicans their power. We have the corrupt leading the blind.

4). The price of oil is based solely on supply and demand

This week investigations began as retail prices have outpaced wholesale prices by as much as 70%.

5) We have been preparing for future terrorist attacks

New Orleans proved that if anything, the Federal Gov response was inept, and the real protectors of homeland security - The National Guard - are short on equipment and unable to do their primary job of keeping Americans safe. Which leads us to the greatest lie of all

6). The Republicans have acted responsibly to keep America safe.

Not only are we clearly unprepared for large scale terror attacks at home, as was seen in New Orleans, also, the war in Iraq has had exactly the opposite effect of that claimed: The Bush administration has sacrificed homeland security for other agendas.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
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Dude, you are un-American. I don't need to back that up with proof that you are wrong---I just have to say it for it to be true.

[/sarcasm]
 
  • #3
russ_watters
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Some of those are just opinions being presented as facts, some are intentionally misleading or intentionally absolute, but several are actually facts that liberals just don't want to accept. For example, #3: That guy al Zar...something is a member of al Qaeda. He is a terrorist and we are fighting him in Iraq. Generally, that fact is intentionally obfuscated by liberals (ie, as it is in the OP), by mixing the why with the what. While it can't be said that we went to Iraq to fight al Qaeda, or that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 (as the OP points out), it is still a fact that we are now fighting terrorism by being in Iraq.

#1 is self contradictory.

#5 is also especially weak. It is a trivially obvious fact that the federal government has taken action to protect us from future terrorist attacks. #5 is the opinion that adequate preparations are not being taken, presented as a fact that no preparations have been made. I'm not a big fan of presenting opinions as facts, especially when they are so self-evidently factually wrong. It gives the impression of purposeful intent to mislead.
 
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  • #4
russ_watters
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Faust, it is not unAmerican to disagree with the actions of our government, but intentional deception is wrong.
 
  • #5
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russ_watters said:
#5 is also especially weak. It is a trivially obvious fact that the federal government has taken action to protect us from future terrorist attacks. #5 is the opinion that adequate preparations are not being taken, presented as a fact that no preparations have been made. I'm not a big fan of presenting opinions as facts, especially when they are so self-evidently factually wrong. It gives the impression of purposeful intent to mislead.
Well, if something is so "...so self-evidently factually wrong." then you should be able to supply those facts to back your claim instead of simply stating it as fact when it is in fact opinion.

Do you dispute the fact that the government's response to a large-scale disaster was lacking to say the least? Do you beilive the war in Iraq is keeping the fight over there? Just a couple of questions.
 
  • #6
SOS2008
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1). The media is liberal - With exception of FOX News, which clearly follows a conservative agenda, the media is neither liberal or conservative but rather driven by ratings/profit and often inept all together.

2). Republicans are fiscal conservatives - I'd like to know where the money went?! :grumpy:

3). We are fighting the terrorists in Iraq - We are fighting some terrorists in Iraq now because of the invasion, but the invasion had nothing to do with terrorists initially. Good job Georgie.

4). The price of oil is based solely on supply and demand - The goal of oil companies is like any other capitalist organization, and that is to maximize profit how ever they can.

5) We have been preparing for future terrorist attacks - As I've said repeatedly, I always knew that was Bush*t if for not other reason than our open borders. Homeland Insecurity - see #2 above.

6). The Republicans have acted responsibly to keep America safe - If Gore had become the president, as he should have, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Americans who support a more conservative (less activist-hah) Supreme Court should at least think on that one.
 
  • #7
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The so called liberal media is primarily owned by large conservative corporations. If the media is truly liberal, why would the conservative owners approve?? It is because in the guise of being liberal, the media can allow people like Karl Rove to still get their conservative propoganda to the people.
 
  • #8
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I don't happen to think the media is liberal.

NPR is touted as being one of the most liberal media outlets around. Listen to any of their talk shows - every view is balanced by someone from the other party.

The listenership is liberal, because we demand balanced reporting. So the calls that are fielded, come from liberals by and large. But you can hardly call NPR liberal on the basis that I listen to it.
 
  • #9
BobG
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1). The media is liberal

For the most part, there's a pretty good mix of liberal and conservative reporters in the media. I think there's slightly more liberal reporters in the media than conservative, so that may be kind of true, but at least way overblown.

2). Republicans are fiscal conservatives :rofl:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=90511

Well, you got'em there. I've been pretty disappointed with the 'changes' brought by a Republican majority in Congress. (Of course, the obvious solution would be to vote Democratic next election - they've clearly mended their ways and will be much more fiscally conservative than they were back when they had a Democratic majority, right? :rolleyes: )

3). Here is the lie that gets me the most: We are fighting the terrorists in Iraq.

That's more a Bushism than a Republican line of thought. It is technically true, but very misleading. The terrorists we're fighting would be in Chechnya if they weren't in Iraq. I also have my doubts about al-Zaqawari being a true al-Qaeda loyalist. It sounds more like an alliance of convenience that might be a little problematic for both. I would think Bin Laden would be in favor of a Shi'ite theocracy - al-Zaqawari attacks the Shi'ites in hopes of sparking a civil war. He's a terrorist, none the less, even if he doesn't adhere to the al-Qaeda goals.

4). The price of oil is based solely on supply and demand

The price of oil is based on supply and demand. When the demand is high, the price stays high even when the costs are low. The investigation is about charging prices way above the costs - something that's only possible when retail demand is high. Most price gouging occurs as wholesale prices drop - refiners and retailers put off or slow the drop in prices as long as they can - they don't mind being followers when it comes to dropping prices and people are unlikely to complain enough to spark investigations when prices are dropping. Prices spiked almost momentarily, enough extra oil was put into the market to push the price back down - refineries raked in a big profit by the delay between the drop in wholesale prices and retail prices.

5) We have been preparing for future terrorist attacks

This is true. Preparing for terrorist attacks is hard work. We've been working hard. Here's a list of the exercises FEMA has taken part in (you have to scroll down a ways to the schedule). In 2004 and 2005 FEMA participated in a slew of exercises testing response to terrorist attack and participated in three exercises testing hurricane response - the purpose of two of the hurricane related exercises was to test FEMA's ability to respond to a terrorist attack that occurred during a hurricane.

6). The Republicans have acted responsibly to keep America safe.

If you discount Bush and some Bush loyalists, many Republicans have acted as responsibly as Democrats. A majority of Democrats voted to authorize the invasion, so it's not only Republicans that were duped by the Bush administration. Quite a few Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, would be a little hesitant to pull the troops out of Iraq today - it would be pretty irresponsible to create a disaster in Iraq and then leave it. Republicans like Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar (both solidly conservative Republicans, by the way) have done as much to expose the gaps in Bush's pre-war rhetoric as any Democrat.
 
  • #10
Why can't we prevent terrorist attacks instead of having to clean up after them? Honestly...I just want to learn to fly the plane, not take off or land... :bugeye: HEH-LOW!!

Your drivers ed instructor would not have let you take the class if you had no interest in the first and last part of the driving.

I love my country but fear my government.
 
  • #11
BobG
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Echo 6 Sierra said:
Why can't we prevent terrorist attacks instead of having to clean up after them? Honestly...I just want to learn to fly the plane, not take off or land... :bugeye: HEH-LOW!!

Your drivers ed instructor would not have let you take the class if you had no interest in the first and last part of the driving.

I love my country but fear my government.
Have you known many students in your life?

My gradeschool daughter's tearful response to the 'help' I gave her on her spelling assignment: "I have to know how spell it, Dad! I don't have to know what it means!"

An electrical engineering student's question to the instructor in a Circuit Analysis class after the first test was complete: "Will we have to remember what the colors on the resistors mean for the next test, too?" Response: "Um, yeah, that's pretty much something you'll have to remember for the rest of your life."

Not a student, but someone in management asking about an orbital mechanics class designed for satellite operators (hoping to cut some time off the class): "Can't you teach this without the math?"

I see nothing strange at all about a flying student only wanting to learn the 'easy' part of flying and hoping they could avoid having to deal with the tougher things like taking off and landing.
 
  • #12
I see your point Bob but I was referring to an adult who is seeking to actually be in control of a pressurised metal tube with live humans in it and several thousand gallons of flammable liquid going several hundred miles an hour through the air above our homes and businesses, not spelling a word or soldering electronics though they may also have serious implications too...I'm just sayin'...there should be a higher degree of "hell no, your not taking this class any more-edness" than what is commonplace at the local "want fries with that" certification rubberstamp place..thingy.

Don't mind me too much, I'm on my 50th piece of nicorette today.
 
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  • #13
Ivan Seeking
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Here is another one for the list: If you don't support the war in Iraq, you aren't supporting your troops or country. In other words, the only acceptable position for any loyal American is to be pro-war.

What lie could be greater or more devious?
 
  • #14
Ivan Seeking
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BobG said:
Most price gouging occurs as wholesale prices drop - refiners and retailers put off or slow the drop in prices as long as they can - they don't mind being followers when it comes to dropping prices and people are unlikely to complain enough to spark investigations when prices are dropping.
The statement was that prices have outpaced wholesale by 70%.

You may remember back in the seventies, during the oil crisis, companies were caught dumping gasoline out in the desert. They have a long history of this.

We have been preparing for future terrorist attacks

This is true. Preparing for terrorist attacks is hard work. We've been working hard. Here's a list of the exercises FEMA has taken part in (you have to scroll down a ways to the schedule). In 2004 and 2005 FEMA participated in a slew of exercises testing response to terrorist attack and participated in three exercises testing hurricane response - the purpose of two of the hurricane related exercises was to test FEMA's ability to respond to a terrorist attack that occurred during a hurricane.
We saw how good of a job was done. And there was no terrorist attack to complicate matters.

6). The Republicans have acted responsibly to keep America safe.

If you discount Bush and some Bush loyalists, many Republicans have acted as responsibly as Democrats. A majority of Democrats voted to authorize the invasion, so it's not only Republicans that were duped by the Bush administration. Quite a few Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, would be a little hesitant to pull the troops out of Iraq today - it would be pretty irresponsible to create a disaster in Iraq and then leave it. Republicans like Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar (both solidly conservative Republicans, by the way) have done as much to expose the gaps in Bush's pre-war rhetoric as any Democrat.
The Dems caved under the fervor for war generated by Bush and his gang, post 911. They were running scared because Bush's lies had been so effective. But I'm not saying that we should pull out now; no, now we're screwed. And you have the Republicans to thank for it for a very long time to come.
 
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  • #15
Before I removed myself from the Marines I would ask things like, "why are we doing that in that country?" or "why are you buying that?" and would be met with looks of complete bewilderment. If I asked why more than they could answer, I was given "other duties" to perform. I have about a zillion stories of how people with no sense are in charge of bands of crazed 18-20 years olds with guns and bombs, some funny, the majority not. Basically I wasted 11 years of my life.
 
  • #16
Ivan Seeking
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Another one that I was reminded of that comes from the deep south. While in Arkansas I once engaged a hard right fundamentalist who was promoting war. I asked how he can be so pro-war when the bible is clear on the issue of killing.

Apparently we have a new commandment: It's okay to kill, just not to murder.

Edit: Of course, this also completely ignores the entire point of the new testament which is the basis for Christianity.
 
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  • #17
SOS2008
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What will it take for the truth to be the truth?

Ivan Seeking said:
The Dems caved under the fervor for war generated by Bush and his gang, post 911. They were running scared because Bush's lies had been so effective. But I'm not saying that we should pull out now; no, now we're screwed. And you have the Republicans to thank for it for a very long time to come.
In a counter rally ("Defenders of war in Iraq respond to large Saturday protest in Washington" Associated Press, Sept. 25, 2005) here is an excerpt with quotes from participants:
The pro-military rally was billed by organizers as a time to honor the troops fighting “the war on terrorism in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere around the world.”
"war on terrorism in Iraq" -- The stupid people who believe this keep repeating it (like another stupid person in the White House). Getting back to the media, they contribute to this by referring to the invasion of Iraq as "war on terror." The damn liberal media ( :rolleyes: ) is so infuriating. The article goes on:
‘It’s the silent majority’
War supporters said the scale of the antiwar march didn’t take away from their cause.

“It’s the silent majority,” said 22-year-old Stephanie Grgurich of Leesburg, Va., who has a brother serving in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9478262/

Why do I suspect it is the "silent majority?" We know people still believe there were WMD and links to 9-11, but they aren't willing to go to the rally -- because someone might yell at them that they're stupid? I wish I could go to rallys like this and pass out copies of the 9-11 Commission Report to these people. Ah, what am I thinking--they would claim it's a conspiracy anyway. Lord save us all.
 
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  • #18
Wasn't it G Bush who said that the War in Iraq was to "Liberate the Iraqi People" bring them freedom...they were not then, under 'terrorist' attack, althought it would appear as such today, certainly the 'Under Attack' part.

As for using lies, it's an old political trick.

But the Propaganda campaigns, now that is telling, the recent History of Movies, and Stories, Glorifieing the Second World War, all adding to the Idea that wars are (somehow) "good" and Flying in the Face of the message that all of those vetrans try to expound, "Never Again!" apparently G. Bush Didn't, and isn't, listening to them.
 
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  • #19
Rabbits LOVE Freedom!

In the very first post it says that: "The media is Liberal"

from this page Defintion of the Word "Liberal"

this piece reference:

Middle English, generous, from Old French, from Latin lberlis, from lber, free. See leudh- in Indo-European Roots.]

The Bold is mine, it says Free.

The United States is supposed to be The Most Freedom Loving Country in the World, on the face of the Planet, and yet, if I say you live in a Liberal Country, saying your FREE, your insulted. US Politics.

Your also not all that free, in certain respects.
 
  • #20
russ_watters
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faust9 said:
Well, if something is so "...so self-evidently factually wrong." then you should be able to supply those facts to back your claim instead of simply stating it as fact when it is in fact opinion.
faust9, the Homeland Security Department was created due to 9/11 for the purpose of defending against terrorism. You, of course, know that. That I have to state obvious facts is something that really annoys me about the politics forum here.
Do you dispute the fact that the government's response to a large-scale disaster was lacking to say the least?
No. I agree that planning for disaster relief was lacking. But that isn't what Ivan's point was in the OP. Or perhaps it was and perhaps the OP was just rhetoric (since he backed off with a later post), but the OP says nothing was done, not that what was done was inadequate. Here it is again:
Ivan Seeking said:
We have been preparing for future terrorist attacks.
If that statement is a lie, then the truth would be that 'we have not been preparing for future terrorist attacks'. And you, of course, know that that is wrong (as, of course, does Ivan).

Again, saying that nothing was done is trivially obviously factually wrong.

The line about fighting terrorism in Iraq contains exactly the same type of misleading rhetoric. Very ironic in a thread supposedly about lies from the other side. :rolleyes:
Do you beilive the war in Iraq is keeping the fight over there?
For the most part, yes.
 
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  • #21
selfAdjoint
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russ_waters said:
faust9, the Homeland Security Department was created due to 9/11 for the purpose of defending against terrorism
So that's the only role of FEMA and the Coast Guard, to defend us against terrorism?
 
  • #22
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russ_watters said:
faust9, the Homeland Security Department was created due to 9/11 for the purpose of defending against terrorism. You, of course, know that.
The creation of a department---which now houses FEMA and we know how that all turned out---does not make us safer. A fact is "Last year we had X terrorist attacks world-wide which is greater then the year before and the year before" The fact is we have milk supplies unprotected to the point were the CIA tried to put the kybosh on a professor's paper telling us as much.

That I have to state obvious facts is something that really annoys me about the politics forum here.
I'm going to start using this excuse from now on.

No. I agree that planning for disaster relief was lacking. But that isn't what Ivan's point was in the OP. Or perhaps it was and perhaps the OP was just rhetoric (since he backed off with a later post), but the OP says nothing was done, not that what was done was inadequate. Here it is again: If that statement is a lie, then the truth would be that 'we have not been preparing for future terrorist attacks'. And you, of course, know that that is wrong (as, of course, does Ivan).

Again, saying that nothing was done is trivially obviously factually wrong.
You must have missed this:
6). The Republicans have acted responsibly to keep America safe.

Ivan posted that and my comments:
"Do you dispute the fact that the government's response to a large-scale disaster was lacking to say the least?"

is in regard to #6.

We can't protect ourselves from an 800lb gorilla that takes 3 days to strike how are we protecting outselves from a proverbial mosquito with malaria(a single terrorist going after lunch milk).

The line about fighting terrorism in Iraq contains exactly the same type of misleading rhetoric. Very ironic in a thread supposedly about lies from the other side. :rolleyes: For the most part, yes.
Ummmm, the republicans are the ones using this rhetoric Russ. Just in case you don't know the war in Iraq is with insurgets. This is so self evident that I don't even have to post any of the articles from the last week or month or year to support it.
 
  • #23
SOS2008
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This site provides a comprehensive list for the Bush administration:

The regime (http://www.onelook.com/?w=regime&ls=a), or cartel (http://www.onelook.com/?w=cartel&ls=a), of George W. Bush has been, since inception, characterized by blatant disregard for fact, willful deception even of themselves, and a fierce determination to impose their rule, globally and nationally, without regard to law, the U.S. Constitution or the principles contained therein. Examples and evidence can be found in the pages linked hereto. Individuals comprising the regime are indexed in the Bush regime characters article.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bush_Regime

The list/timelines/charts of instances, article, books, etc. on this topic are immense--you could spend hours going from one link to the next. Or google the Internet in general, or browse through Amazon.com, and you can see for yourself--it's overwhelming. Here is another quote from the Source Watch site:
Moe Blue, in his March 29, 2004, Bad Attitudes posting "Reliable Numbers", puts it this way: [4] (http://badattitudes.com/MT/)

"The Bush administration has a proven proclivity for doctoring the output of government agencies to suit the agenda of the moment. Whether it's messing with EPA reports (deleting all references to global warming, falsely claiming the air at Ground Zero is safe, etc.) or submitting known-false cost projections to Congress over the prescription drug benefit, the White House has shown time and time again its willingness to lie about anything and everything.

"All of which leads to the real dilemma: The reliability of the data issued by the White House is questionable, and that makes it difficult or impossible to govern the country, and impossible for business to flourish. The president's economic forecast, issued last month, was quickly proven to be so much fantasizing to meet the political needs of Team Bush. With that document now on the trash heap, how can Congress or the White House do any substantial planning for the next year?

"Similarly, the Bush budgets famously leave out known extreme expenses (i.e., the cost of the Iraq occupation). Again, this makes it impossible to prepare a budget that's based on anything other than blue-sky fantasies.
"All this should disturb voters of any political stripe -- from far-right to extreme left. If the data upon which our government governs is twisted or fabricated to suit instant political needs, governing is impossible. And that poses far more of a threat to our system of government and our way of life than any possible terrorist attack."
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bush_lies_and_deceptions

I don't recall a time when there have been so many investigations, whether GOP leaders or more local scandals like "Coingate" in Ohio.
 
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  • #24
russ_watters
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selfAdjoint said:
So that's the only role of FEMA and the Coast Guard, to defend us against terrorism?
Huh? No, but what does that have to do with anything?
faust9 said:
The creation of a department---which now houses FEMA and we know how that all turned out---does not make us safer.
That's an opinion and you are welcome to it, but that is not what the OP says. The OP posited a fact that nothing has been done. It wasn't the opinion that nothing has been done that has helped, it was the fact that nothing has been done. And that fact is wrong.
6).
I'm not interested in arguing the opinion of #6. But I will reiterate that it is an opinion, not a fact, and therefore it cannot be a lie.
Just in case you don't know the war in Iraq is with insurgets.
And some of those insurgents are terrorists. But the statement in the OP doesn't say that and is therefore quite obviously wrong. By not completing the sentence, you give the appearance of trying to split the same hair.
Ummmm, the republicans are the ones using this rhetoric Russ.
This thread was started by a Democrat trying to put words in the mouths of Republicans and trying to use word-play to fabricate lies (irony intended) and failing. For example, the above (about doing nothing) is pointlessly obvious. But trying to change that into a lie with word-play and rhetoric is pointless, precisely because it is so trivially obviously true.
 
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  • #25
Pengwuino
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Factcheck.org just posted another article detailing the same ol same ol Democrat lies used to trick the public.

http://www.factcheck.org/article349.html [Broken]

I wonder if this is the end of the democratic party. America will soon realize that half of everything the democrats say end up being lies.
 
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