Can the Rest Mass of an Object Change Over Time?

In summary, the rest mass of an object can be time dependent if it is losing mass by radiating it away or if you chop pieces off with a knife.
  • #1
ChrisVer
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I was wondering... can the rest mass of an object be time dependent? Like in a scenario where the body is losing mass?

(Sorry I meant for a title "rest mass time dependent?")
 
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  • #2
Only if the object is losing mass by somehow radiating it away.
 
  • #3
Or if you chop pieces off with a knife!
 
  • #5
I think the usual application of this scenario is the rocket problem. :)
 
  • #6
Well, this is the relativity subforum, where rest mass is synonymous with energy. What process doesn't change the energy?

The energy of a tree changes if I start walking to the left.
 
  • #7
stedwards said:
this is the relativity subforum, where rest mass is synonymous with energy

No, it isn't. Energy is one component of the 4-momentum vector, and is frame-dependent. Rest mass is the invariant length of the 4-momentum vector, and is not frame-dependent.
 
  • #8
stedwards said:
Well, this is the relativity subforum, where rest mass is synonymous with energy.
Using older terminology than Peter, you're talking about relativistic mass (a concept that has largely fallen out of favour, by the way), not rest mass.
 
  • #9
ChrisVer said:
I was wondering... can the rest mass of an object be time dependent? Like in a scenario where the body is losing mass?
My $0.02 is that one should consider the dynamical group for the entire system. E.g., in a rocket, matter is ejected in one direction to change the rocket's velocity in the opposite direction. The rocket thus feels acceleration, so one must be cautious about naively applying the Poincare group to the rocket in isolation, and hence should also be cautious about the "invariant mass" Casimir of the Poincare group. Rather, one should probably decompose into com and relative coordinates, and find the full dynamical group applicable to the system with com dofs factored out. Then look at the Casimirs of that group applicable to the relative motion...
 
  • #10
PeterDonis said:
No, it isn't. Energy is one component of the 4-momentum vector, and is frame-dependent. Rest mass is the invariant length of the 4-momentum vector, and is not frame-dependent.

You love the word "no", Peter. No, no, no, no no. Intrinsic mass is normally associated with the norm of P.
 
  • #11
stedwards said:
[..] The energy of a tree changes if I start walking to the left.
- The energy of a tree is just as little affected by your change of choice of reference system as the amount of gasoline in a car is affected by your choice of using gallons or liters. Changing the observation (assuming no interaction) can not affect what is observed.
- Your choice of reference system is free, it does not depend on your state of motion (compare GPS)
 
  • #12
stedwards said:
You love the word "no", Peter. No, no, no, no no.
What's your problem, mate? Peter is not the one who made an incorrect statement. You did, in post #6, i.e.,
stedwards said:
[...] rest mass is synonymous with energy
That's just plain wrong. The word "no" is entirely appropriate in an answer to correct an error.

Intrinsic mass is normally associated with the norm of P.
If by "P" you mean 4-momentum, then,... PeterD said essentially the same thing. But that's different from your incorrect statement that "rest mass is synonymous with energy".
In modern parlance, "Intrinsic mass", "invariant mass", and "rest mass" are synonymous (though I prefer "invariant mass"). Cf. this Wiki page.
 
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  • #13
strangerep said:
applying the Poincare group to the rocket in isolation, and hence should also be cautious about the "invariant mass" Casimir of the Poincare group. Rather, one should probably decompose into com and relative coordinates, and find the full dynamical group applicable to the system with com dofs factored out. Then look at the Casimirs of that group applicable to the relative motion...

Yes I had the moving rocket in mind.
However I don't understand what you meant in the quoted message
 
  • #14
ChrisVer said:
Yes I had the moving rocket in mind.
However I don't understand what you meant in the quoted message
Uh oh. To answer that properly needs a lot more than a mere "$0.02 worth", but I don't have much spare time at the moment. Sorry. :oldfrown:
 

What is rest mass time dependent?

Rest mass time dependent refers to the concept that the rest mass of an object can change over time due to factors such as motion, acceleration, and interactions with other objects.

How does rest mass time dependent affect an object's properties?

Rest mass time dependent can affect an object's properties such as its momentum, energy, and gravitational force. As an object's rest mass changes, these properties can also change.

What factors can cause rest mass to change over time?

Rest mass can change over time due to factors such as an object's velocity, acceleration, and interactions with other objects. For example, as an object approaches the speed of light, its rest mass will increase.

Is rest mass time dependent a relativistic concept?

Yes, rest mass time dependent is a concept that arises from Einstein's theory of relativity. It is based on the principle that an object's mass and energy are equivalent, and that the rest mass of an object is not constant but can change depending on its state of motion.

How is rest mass time dependent related to time dilation?

Rest mass time dependent is related to time dilation in that as an object's velocity increases, its rest mass increases and time appears to pass slower for the object compared to an observer at rest. This is due to the fact that time and mass are interconnected in relativity, and as an object's rest mass increases, it experiences time dilation.

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