Roman invasion of British

[wolram]

Main Question or Discussion Point

Claudius invasion of British

A war between two british tribes the Atrebates and the Catuvellauni and
the ensuing ousting of Verica king of the Atrebates gave Claudius an excuse
to invade Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verica
Not much is known about british tribes in this era, but Verica had the tittle
Rex before the Claudius invasion.

 

[wolram]

A map of the tribal regions of britain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/prehistory/iron_01.shtml#top

 

[wolram]

The factors that Claudius took into account before the planned third invasion

Rome had, up to this point, enjoyed useful political and trading relationships which they wanted to keep alive.


The Spanish silver mines, for which Rome depended to produce raw materials for the manufacture of it's currency were running low. Shafts had to be dug deeper. This meant that less material was available and with deeper mines, the time and cost factor rose sharply.

Information arrived from Rome that extensive surface deposits of argentiferous lead ore (galena) had been found in the South West region of Britain

Iron was also available throughout Britain, which could be used to repair ships damaged in the invasions of 55 and 54 BC.

The Roman Empire was in a peaceful stage and so it was possible to gather an army of troops for this task.

 

[wolram]

http://www.eastmidlands.info/verulamium/catuvellauni.htm

The origins of Verulamium are pre-Roman when in the first century BC the Catuvellauni, a leading Celtic tribe, established a royal settlement on the plateau and vallyside south of the river Ver. Contemporary coins place this event at c. 20-15 B.C in the reign of King Tasciovanus. Verlamion appears to have been his principle mint, appearing as VER or VERL on the coinage. Its meaning is uncertain and of the possibilities ‘the settlement above the marsh’ best fits the presumed ancient typography.

By about AD 10, Tasciovanus had been succeeded by Cunobelin, the most successful of all the Celtic Kings of pre-Roman Britain. Styled as the son of Tasciovanus on some of his coins, Cunobelin appears to have ruled over the unified territories of the Trinovantes and Catuvellauni.

Although his main base and mint was at Camulodunum (Colchester) appearing as the mint signature CAMV, Verlamion continued to remain an important centre. Cunobelin's aggressive policy of expansion that involved members of his family eventually lead to Roman concern over the extent of his power, and following his death just prior to AD43, the emperor Claudius took the decision to invade Britain.

 

[Astronuc]

Information arrived from Rome that extensive surface deposits of argentiferous lead ore (galena) had been found in the South West region of Britain.

I take it that this is a reference to Cornwall. My paternal grandmother's family is from this region. There were large deposits of tin as well.

More recent history -

The life of a Cornish miner was a hard brutal one. Though woman and girls only worked on the surface, a man often began underground work at the age of 12. Diseases such as bronchitis consumption and rheumatism were rife. A man was often no longer fit enough to work underground beyond the age of 40.

from http://www.cornishlight.co.uk/mining-in-cornwall.htm

Three such real epitaphs from the East of the County:

"Aged 14 killed by a rockfall underground.

Aged 19 killed by an explosion in a hole.

Aged 26 killed underground by a piece of wood
let drop on his head by his colleagues"

 

[wolram]

It seems then that Claudius had several reasons to invade when he did.

The Catuvellauni were a strong fighting force and gaining strength, and the iron and lead found in england were a valuable commodity

 

[wolram]

I'm not sure about Cornwall Astro, i know a lot came from here.

http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/raw_mining.htm

Within six years of the invasion of 43AD., the Mendip lead mines were in full production. By 70AD., Britain was the biggest supplier of lead and silver to the empire. It reached such a level that the Spanish lodged a complaint with the emperor as their lead trade had fallen to such a low level. The emperor responded by setting limits for Britain's production, but it didn't affect production. Lead was in such high demand that the number of mines actually increased despite the limitations and output rose. New mines opened and a large part of Wales and North-West England was being mined for lead by the end of the century.

 

[wolram]

CAMVLODVNVM Colchester, Essex

The only town mentioned by Ptolemy was the tribal capital of the Trinovantes, which had been took from them during a war with the Catuvellauni about AD9. The town became the site of the first Roman Legionary Fortress in Britain, and was later to become the first Roman colonia in the province, both establishments were self-administrating and were allocated a large proportion of the original Trinovantian tribal territories.

 

[wolram]

Trinovantes
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Trinovantes or Trinobantes were one of the Celtic tribes that lived in pre-Roman Britain. Their territory was on the north side of the Thames estuary in current Essex and Suffolk, and included lands now located in the city of London. Their name may mean "the strong ones". Their capital was Camulodunum (modern Colchester), and one proposed site of the legendary Camelot.

Shortly before Julius Caesar's invasion of Britain in 55 and 54 BC, the Trinovantes were considered the most powerful tribe in Britain. At this time their capital was probably at Braughing. In some manuscripts of Caesar's Gallic War their king is referred to as Imanuentius, although in other manuscripts no name is given. Some time before Caesar's second expedition this king was overthrown by Cassivellaunus, who is usually assumed to have belonged to the Catuvellauni. His son, Mandubracius, fled to the protection of Caesar in Gaul. Caesar defeated Cassivellaunus and restored Mandubracius to the kingship, Cassivellaunus undertook not to molest him again. Tribute was also agreed.

The next identifiable king of the Trinovantes, known from numismatic evidence, was Addedomarus, who took power ca. 20-15 BC, and moved the tribe's capital to Camulodunum. For a brief period ca. 10 BC Tasciovanus of the Catuvellauni issued coins from Camulodunum, suggesting that he conquered the Trinovantes, but he was soon forced to withdraw, perhaps as a result of pressure from the Romans, as his later coins no longer bear the mark "Rex", and Addedomarus was restored. Addedomarus was briefly succeeded by his son Dubnovellaunus c. 10–5 BC, but a few years later the tribe was finally conquered by either Tasciovanus or his son Cunobelinus.

The Trinovantes reappear in history when they participated in Boudicca's revolt against the Roman Empire in 60 AD. Their name was given to one of the civitates of Roman Britain.

Their name, reshaped as Troi-novantes to mean "New Troy", is the source of Geoffrey of Monmouth's claim that Celtic Britain was settled by Brutus and other refugees from the Trojan War.

 

[wolram]

The first battles.
http://www.athenapub.com/caesar1.htm

Finally, on August 26, 55 BC, two Roman Legions (about 10,000 soldiers) under Caesar's personal command crossed the channel in a group of transport ships leaving from Portus Itius (today's Boulogne). By the next morning (August 27), as Caesar reports, the Roman ships were just off the chalky cliffs of Dover, whose upper banks were lined with British warriors prepared to do battle. The Romans therefore sailed several miles further northeast up the coastline and landed on the flat, pebbly shore around Deal.

The Britons met the legionaries at the beach with a large force, including warriors in horse-drawn chariots, an antiquated fighting method not used by the Roman military. After an initial skirmish, the British war leaders sought a truce, and handed over hostages.

 

[EnumaElish]

How is it that the Channel didn't stop the Romans but it stopped Napoleon and later, the Nazis?

 

[wolram]

How is it that the Channel didn't stop the Romans but it stopped Napoleon and later, the Nazis?

Napoleon was unlucky a storm drove his ships out of position, if i remember
correctly.
Before the Nazis could invade England they needed air supremacy, they didn't
get it.

 

[Astronuc]

Within six years of the invasion of 43AD., the Mendip lead mines were in full production. By 70AD., Britain was the biggest supplier of lead and silver to the empire.

Mendip, just south of Bristol and Bath in Somerset, is not quite Cornwall, but it is more or less the beginning of the Cornish peninsula.

 

[wolram]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia#Phoenician_Merchantry

From elsewhere they got many other materials, perhaps the most important being tin from Spain and from Cornwall in Britain, that together with copper (from Cyprus) was used to make bronze. Trade routes from Asia converged on the Phoenician coast as well, enabling the Phoenicians to govern trade between Mesopotamia on the one side, and Egypt and Arabia on the other.

I didn't realise tin mining in Cornwall went as back as this. I havn't found
mention of the Romans mining there yet.

 

[wolram]

In the wooded terrain north of the River Thames, Cassivellaunus adopted scorched-earth, guerrilla-warfare methods, destroying local food sources and using chariots to harrass the Roman legions. But neighboring tribes who resented the domination by Cassivellaunus, including the Trinovantes and their allies the Cenimagni, Segontiaci, Ancalites, Bibroci and Cassi (the latter five tribes, known to us only through Caesar's account) then went over to the Romans.

Caesar thus learned from native informants the location of the secret stronghold of Cassivellaunus, probably the hill fort at Wheathampstead, located on the west bank of the River Lea, near St. Albans. Even as the Roman army under Caesar were massing outside his fort's gates, however, Cassivellaunus made the bold move of ordering his allies in Kent to attack the Roman beach camp at Deal. This attack failed, and Cassivellaunus then gave up. Yet the terms of surrender he negotiated with the Romans seem to have been moderate, as Caesar had learned of mounting problems back in Gaul, and wanted to return there. The Roman legions left Britain in early September, 54 BC. They were not to return again for 97 years, when the Claudian invasion of AD 43 began the active Roman conquest of Britain. Caesar's two expeditions, meanwhile, provided basic information on the terrain, inhabitants, and political, economic and military customs of Britain, our only direct historical record for that time period.

 

[wolram]

Roman Britain industrial layer map.

http://www.roman-britain.org/places/_industrial_layermap.htm#tic

 

[Astronuc]

Great map, Wolram.

Using it I found - http://www.roman-britain.org/places/ngr/_ngr_sw.htm#

Three tin mines in Cornwall, and a settelment, Trevelgue Head, near two of those mines - http://www.roman-britain.org/places/trevelgue_head.htm

 

[EnumaElish]

Napoleon was unlucky a storm drove his ships out of position, if i remember correctly. Before the Nazis could invade England they needed air supremacy, they didn't get it.

Maybe the French and the Germans are people with an extreme fear of drowning? Both Napoleon and the Nazis never made it across some river in Russia, either.

 

[wolram]

Great map, Wolram.

Using it I found - http://www.roman-britain.org/places/ngr/_ngr_sw.htm#

Three tin mines in Cornwall, and a settelment, Trevelgue Head, near two of those mines - http://www.roman-britain.org/places/trevelgue_head.htm

Astro, i think that the history of roman Cornwall is wrong, some thing is missing,
I may be wrong, so i will keep looking,

 

[wolram]

Maybe the French and the Germans are people with an extreme fear of drowning? Both Napoleon and the Nazis never made it across some river in Russia, either.

:rofl: May be we shouldn't compare military prowess with natural barriers.

 

[loseyourname]

How is it that the Channel didn't stop the Romans but it stopped Napoleon and later, the Nazis?

It didn't stop the Anglo-Saxons that displaced the Celts or the Normans that displaced the Anglo-Saxons.

 

[wolram]

You are so right loseyourname, sea travel seemed common in ancient times,
even in the stone age trade between britain and and places, "over seas",
was not uncommon.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

I'm just reading about that, the stone age trade between Britain and other places in Norman Davies, The Isles. so much more civilised than I'd imagine at that time.

 

[wolram]

I'm just reading about that, the stone age trade between Britain and other places in Norman Davies, The Isles. so much more civilised than I'd imagine at that time.

Yes i am sure some thing has been lost in history, the stone age people were
not uncivilized savages, as the Henges will testify, they must have possessed
skills that are to date unknown, what stoped there evolution ?

 

[fuzzyfelt]

fascinating. What do you think stopped it? And do you mean evolution on this Isle, or European celtic? You've incited me, I'm off now to read more of my book.