# Rotary Piston

1. Jun 9, 2010

### emiltr

Hi,
I am industrial automation engineer,I am 52 years old and I am from Romania.
I would love to talk with you about "ROTARY MACHINE WITH ECCENTRIC PISTON" ,I like to say:"rotary piston"
I asked the name "Rotary Piston" but the Patent Office has given the name:"ROTARY MACHINE WITH ECCENTRIC PISTON"
I will give the patent which unfortunately is in Romanian.
International Classification: main F01C 1/348, secondary F04C 2/348
The operating principle is translated into English.
The drawings are correct.
The invention relates to a rotary machine with eccentric piston, that can be a pump, compressor, pneumatic motor, hydraulic motor or internal combustion engine. According to the invention, the rotary machine has a cylindrical piston (1) mounted in a cylindrical housing (2) tangent to the inner cylindrical wall of the cylindrical housing (2), the cylindrical piston (1) being provided with a sealing piece (3), wherein a rotary blade (4) can glide, said blade being integral with a driving shaft (5) whose rotation axis concides with the axis of the cylindrical housing (2), the rotary blade (4) being in permanent contact with the inner cylindrical wall of the cylindrical housing (2); between the rotation axis of the cylindrical piston (1) and the axis of the cylindrical housing (2) there is provided an eccentricity (e).

http://bd.osim.ro/pdf/122000-/122100-/122160.pdf" [Broken]

The operating principle is shown here:

A practical realization is shown here:

I would like very much to have a discussion with you on the rotary piston.
The exhibitions was awarded with 3 gold medals: "ITEX 2009 Kuala Lumpur,Malaysia", "INTERNATIONAL WARSAW INVENTIONS SHOW IWIS2009", "GENIUS-EUROPE International Inventions IFIA 2009",
I've given this recognition,to please: to carefully consider this idea.
It is not just an idea is an idea that got a patent and three gold medals and to understand why I feel frustrated.
Despite these recognitions, nothing happens.
Hope the translation is correct, I use Google Translation.

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2. Jun 9, 2010

### jack action

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
3. Jun 9, 2010

### emiltr

There is one significant difference between a rotary vane and rotary piston. The center of rotation of the vane is centered in the housing…..and not centered in the rotor . Also the vane dosen't need to rub on the housing walls as it rotates and so in this area is not rpm limited.
The vane is fixed to the shaft,no need for spring or centrifugal force so in this area is not pressure limited.
For the rotary piston ,contact between the vane and cylindrical hausing is a surface and not a line(generator).Very easy to sealed.

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
4. Jun 9, 2010

### jack action

I see.

What do you want to discuss about this machine? What do you expect to happen with all your recognitions?

5. Jun 9, 2010

### emiltr

It's a difficult question.
Why an engineer always wants to do something better?And not only the engineers.
Why some people like the challenge?Why sacrifice much to make something better?What are they expecting ?

In this case, as I see somewhere works the rotary piston.
It is a principle, and without good mechanical engineers (I am not a mechanical engineer) will not work.
Are some problems.I have ideas, but must be discussed.
At constant shaft speed,means variable speed of rotor.
For liquids: I think narrowing from the suction and the discharge is a problem.I think the suction and the discharge should be moved.
I would like to try a hydraulic transmission and even a reduction.
I am convinced that a hydraulic transmission is better than a classic.
I am convinced we can make a reduction which was not possible until now
due to excessive forces.

6. Jun 9, 2010

### jack action

Sorry, but your english is difficult to follow. But if I understand correctly, all I can say is that you must come up with a specific question or problem if you want people to help you. Because this is all you can expect here: help. Nobody will do the job for you, such that you can built a machine that will revolutionize the world. You're not the first one who thinks that he has a great idea and expect a lot from it. I'm not saying this to discourage you.

If you want to know where to get some particular information or what books to buy, if you need to better understand a fundamental physics principles or if you want to share a particular problem with your machine in hope that someone has a solution, that's the kind of help you will be able to get here.

7. Jun 9, 2010

### emiltr

Nobody understands the idea, and speaks good English to help me to explain?
Alone, more than that I can not do.
Means that this idea will die?
Or somewhere in China will be developed, implemented?

Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
8. Jun 9, 2010

### jack action

You basically have two choices to built your machine:

- You can study, read books or even surf the Internet to get better knowledge;

- You can built prototypes of your machine by trial and error.

If you encounter problems or have specific questions while doing either one, we might be able to help.

Otherwise, if you find a buyer that is interested, you can sell your patent for someone else to develop it.

9. Jun 9, 2010

### emiltr

Believe me, I can do,alone,a prototype.
If however,make a prototype,what to do with it?Then I start production?
Maybe I am idealistic, but I do not sell the patent.I am convinced that if someone has the patent, and only he produces will go bankrupt many enterprises.
So anyone can get the production license.
I am interested in any collaboration.

10. Jun 10, 2010

### xxChrisxx

It does look like a promising idea, however collaborating over the internet is a very difficult task. The other problem is that it is quite easy to make a concept and discuss the concept (over the internet), detail work is usually highly technical and a forum is a very clumsy way to communicate.

I'd suggest that you deal with one problem at a time, so one question that we can think about and discuss. This will stop us getting confused when many questions are asked.

11. Jun 10, 2010

### emiltr

I propose to talk about transmission.

I think ,but maybe wrong,forum is more than a library or Wikipedia.Is where we can exchange ideas, we can dream.
For me it is a relaxation, a hobby.Some like chess or sports or politics.I like the technical challenge.
May are others like me?
Can we have a pump and a hydraulic motor with rotary piston?
We can replace the transmission in a car.
One pump station and four motors in the wheels, means an equal power transmission.
Four pumps and four drive motors means equal speed.
Wheel is not mechanically connected to the engine, resulting a high mobility of the wheel.
What automotiv engineers say, worth trying?
Torque transmission from the locomotive wagons.Worth trying?
For the divers all kinds of tools.They may not have power tools. etc....etc....
Worth trying to achieve a hydraulic transmission of torque?

12. Jun 10, 2010

### jack action

Now we can start talking.

What does engineers have to say about hydraulic transmission? They say yes. Already been done and still a very popular choice among utility vehicles. It is called hydrostatic transmission.

Main advantages: High torque at low speed and easy to change "gear ratio".

For more information (and see what would be your competition) here are some links from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_(mechanics)#Hydrostatic"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission#Hydrostatic_CVTs"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_drive_system" [Broken]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive#Hydrostatic_transmission"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_machinery" [Broken]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_motor" [Broken]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_pump" [Broken]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vane_pump" [Broken]

Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
13. Jun 10, 2010

### CanisMajor

I think a main thing to do would be to create a calculated BMEP curve, by assuming various combustion pressures within your chamber and see what that compares to other engines... then build it and test.

14. Jun 10, 2010

### emiltr

For a long time I wanted to ask someone:In the section where green arrow:between the two blades.Is a variable volume compartment during rotation.There occurs what is there? There is no valve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rotary_vane_pump.svg" [Broken]

I am convinced that a pump or a hydraulic motor, based on rotary piston,It is more efficient than any pump or motor.
Prototype that you see on the practical in the video is very poorly executed.
I have a drawing for execution but I did not have who to execute.

Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
15. Jun 10, 2010

### CanisMajor

i think expansion part of the cycle.

16. Jun 10, 2010

### emiltr

But if working with liquid? As pump or hydraulic motor?

17. Jun 10, 2010

### emiltr

I have some questions.
How is the turbine hydraulic efficiency? How depends on the pressure supplied?
How is the efficiency of water pumps (hydrophore) used to supply drinking water the towns where are the three stages of the turbine to pressurize?
(which is the word correctly, yield or efficiency?)

18. Jun 10, 2010

### jack action

It seems that hydraulic pump (or motor) has an efficiency of 90%. So an hydraulic pump driving an hydraulic motor will have an efficiency of 0.9*0.9=0.81.

Here's a good book to get basics knowledge about hydraulic machinery: http://books.google.ca/books?id=TIg...+controls&lr=&hl=fr&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false". (There's a very interesting chapter about hydrostatic transmissions).

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2017
19. Jun 10, 2010

### emiltr

Thank you Jack,is useful and I have to study.
Conclusion at first sight: the most efficiencies is bent axis motor.
I think the rotary piston reaches at these performances.
The main advantage is simplicity, reliability, low price.I also believe is more linear.
His performance will not depend on pressure, rpm, vol.
But we have made and put on a trial stand.
Until there are no measurements can not say anything for sure.
If I understood well,none is greater flow or high flow.Therefore, I asked the turbines.
I think the rotary piston can give flow as turbines and efficiencies as reciprocating pumps.
Rotary piston we can do very large.All movements are rotation.And there are only a few pieces.

20. Jun 11, 2010

### emiltr

I am confused, or I do not understand well.
All I found on yield, yield is related to an ideal model.Says nothing about the ideal model.
Where can I find an energy balance.Something like this:
In a hydropower, energy consumption in time t, it is E1= Qght
Q is flow , g is g-force,h is water height, t is time
Energy loss is E2=QVVt / 2 V is water speed from outlet.
Ceded power to the system is E1-E2.
The yield is (E1-E2) / E1 X 100 Which generally is ...........Depends on water height as follows ........

For just a pump.
Energy received on the shaft is ......,Amount of water pumped.........., from a height of ......, ....
So energy is obtained ....
The yield is ......

21. Jun 11, 2010

### jack action

Pump power calculator: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pumps-power-d_505.html" [Broken]

Remember that the equivalent pressure P from a height h is:

$$P=\rho g h$$

So any pressure can be related to a "theoretical height".

Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
22. Jun 11, 2010

### emiltr

I think a specialist with the possibility of execution,should complete the "rotary piston", in weeks.I, alone, would take years.Too much!

A former colleague, mechanical engineer(sewing machine specialist), made the drawing of execution in 20 hours.I can not do.Execution on video you see is unacceptable.He said that to work correctly, must be designed by a specialist who has experience in pump design.

As I said, most importantly for me is to see running "rotary piston".That is,I will give everything I have.

I hope someone is interested and will signal back if he will have results.

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23. Jun 20, 2010

### emiltr

rotary piston-engine

Four-stroke engine has the following losses: 30% of energy is lost through cooling,40% is lost through the flue gas discharge and 8% mechanical losses and incomplete combustion.Only 32% of energy goes to the wheels.I try to eliminate these losses.
The first step is to develop a compressed gas source having 5At.Little pressure to not need cooling and minimum loss due to exhaust gases.
Put a burner in the chember, well insulated(burner as heating systems are or how are the water heaters).Mixture of intake are taken from a rotary pistonand and compressed in to combustion chamber.(This is the principle, I think the air will be compressed and the fuel will be injected).Burner burns all the time with different powers.When the pressure reaches 5At only the pilot flame burning.
After burning gas volume multiply.Closed chamber, pressure and temperature increases.Chamber is not closed, the flow increases.
Fuel can be anything that burns.Butan, alcohol, gasoline, oil, etc..
Burner must be dezigned for the fuel used.
Until now, could not ensure efficient airflow ,needed for the combustion to 5At.Rotary piston can,also 5At were not sufficient to produce enough power.For rotary piston is enough.
So,5At pressure is maintained with an automated system.

A rotary piston is attached to the pressure at 5At.
Rotary piston is usable area 100mm x 100mm = 10000mm = 100cm square square
Force=5AtX100cm squar= 500Kgf = 5000N
200mm arm = 20cm ,torque results 5000 / 5 = 1000N / m
High speed (20,000 rpm-30, 000rpm) and give a great power.We can have a lower rotary piston or a lower pressure
The advantages of this engine are:reliability,lightweight,lower fuel consumption,low cost,easy maintenance.

What is your opinion, PF