Why Divide by (p + 2) in Rudin's Proof on Page 2?

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In summary, the conversation discusses a question about dividing by (p + 2) in a proof for showing that there is no rational number satisfying p² = 2. There is confusion about where the (p + 2) comes from and why it is necessary to divide at all. The conversation also mentions a similar exercise in the book and suggests changing the 2 to √2 for a better understanding of the concept.
  • #1
sponsoredwalk
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I wrote a big question as regards this question but pretty much made
sense of it all apart from one bit, why divide by (p + 2) in
[itex] q \ = \ p \ - \ \frac{p^2 \ - \ 2}{p \ + \ 2}[/itex]
in the proof on page 2 of Rudin?
(Check it on the https://www.amazon.com/dp/007054235X/?tag=pfamazon01-20 using amazon's search feature).

The goal is to show that there is no rational number satisfying p² = 2. I'm
fine with the (m/n)² = 2 part, i.e. that a number is even if it's divisible by 2
& odd if it's divisible by 2 leaving 1 as a remainder but when he "examines
this situation a little more closely" I just don't see where (p + 2) comes
from, why not just Δp or something, why so specific? In fact, why
even bother dividing at all?


A := {p ∈ Q| p² < 2}
B := {p ∈ Q| p² > 2}

To show that A has no largest element there should be a q in A such that
p < q he invents this equality for q.

[itex] q \ = \ p \ - \ \frac{p^2 \ - \ 2}{p \ + \ 2}[/itex]

Now, the only logic I can see here is that if p² < 2 & we divide by (p + 2)
(for some reason):

[itex] (p^2 \ < \ 2) \ \Rightarrow \ ( \frac{1}{p \ + \ 2} ) \cdot \ (p^2) \ < \ ( \frac{1}{p \ + \ 2} ) \cdot \ (2) [/itex]

[itex]\Rightarrow \ \frac{2}{p \ + \ 2} \ < \ \frac{p^2}{p \ + \ 2} [/itex]

[itex] \Rightarrow \ ( \frac{p^2}{p \ + \ 2}) \ - \ \frac{2}{p \ + \ 2} \ < \ 0 [/itex]

[itex] \Rightarrow \ ( \frac{p^2 \ - \ 2}{p \ + \ 2})[/itex]

I just don't see why dividing matters. Would it not be better to just
not divide at all, wouldn't there still be a gap between p & q due to
the < sign?

If p² < 2 then (p² - 2) < 0 & q = p - (p² - 2) so q = 2 + (p - p²)

Then q - 2 = (p - p²) & that's really unhelpful.

No, it would not be better I guess :redface: But you see what I mean, I'd just like to
know why he divides. I can understand that he does it that way to strictly avoid the
dead end I've come up with when doing no division but I'm hoping there's some deeper
meaning as opposed to just an example of crazy genius at play :tongue: Any thoughts?
 
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  • #2
What Rudin did here was a slight variation of exercises 16 and 17 in chapter 3, page 81 of the same book. Anyways if you just want a quick answer, then the (p+2) denominator is somewhat necessary. For more abstraction, that 2 can be any number higher than √2 for the equation to work. You should be able to figure out why by changing the 2 to √2 in the bottom and seeing what happens.
 

1. Why is (p + 2) used in Rudin's proof on page 2?

In Rudin's proof, (p + 2) is used to represent the number of terms in a sum. This number is chosen because it allows for the use of mathematical induction, which is a powerful tool in proving mathematical statements.

2. How does dividing by (p + 2) help in the proof on page 2?

Dividing by (p + 2) is a key step in Rudin's proof because it allows for the cancellation of terms in the sum. This simplifies the expression and makes it easier to manipulate and prove the desired result.

3. Can any other number be used instead of (p + 2) in the proof on page 2?

Technically, any number could be used in place of (p + 2) in the proof on page 2. However, the choice of (p + 2) is strategic and allows for the use of induction, which is essential in the proof.

4. Why is (p + 2) specifically chosen and not (p + 1) or (p + 3) in the proof on page 2?

(p + 2) is chosen in the proof because it is the smallest number that allows for the use of induction to prove the statement. Choosing a smaller number would not allow for the necessary cancellation of terms, and choosing a larger number would make the proof more complex and difficult to follow.

5. Is dividing by (p + 2) necessary in Rudin's proof on page 2?

Yes, dividing by (p + 2) is necessary in Rudin's proof on page 2. Without this step, the proof would not be able to proceed and the desired result would not be proven. Dividing by (p + 2) is a crucial step in simplifying the expression and making it easier to manipulate and prove the statement.

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