S.A.R.S Could this be the result of inbound Particles

[ranyart]

From the Comet impact on Jupiter from some years ago?

It seems that there are possible connections of upper atmospheric bacteria being morphed with extra-solarsytem-impact driven lifeforms, such as Bacteria being lifted from Jupiter during the comet impact some years ago.

Has anyone condidered this aspect for the appearence of this new virus?
I was reading an article about the SARS VIRUS, and it seems quite plausable that new virus/bacteria can be distributed from Planet to Planet by such catostrophic impacts on our Solar neighbours bringing NEW LIFEFORMS to Earth.

The upper atmosphere is teeming with bacteria that can be 'living' for eons in the border of our atmosphere and space, I wonder if such a possibility of 'Inter-Solar' Viral Evolution will turn out to be where S.A.R.S originated from? A check of impact from meteorites that have come through our atmosphere, colliding with bacteria that is allready in our Upper Atmosphere, and then raining down on Earth with far reaching consequences.

Just a possibility?..or just a good storyline for a standard disaster B-Movie?

I think there are grave possibilities for this to have actually happened, the Comet impact on Jupiter a couple of years ago produced a cloud of debris that was ejected into our solar system, it seems likely that there would be particles that reach Earth sometime after impact-time.

You heared it here, we may have to look more closely at our Solar System Impacts on other Planets, not just here on Earth.

 

[FZ+]

But how can viruses evolve in space? Don't they require a living host?
And it seems unlikely that a virus should come down from space and just happen to be well adapted to surviving and thriving in humans, a lifeform it may not have come across ever...

 

[chroot]

Where do you loonies come from anyway? Is there a training camp somewhere?

- Warren

 

[ranyart]

S.A.RS

Are you stating that Earth is the only source of Bacteria in the Cosmos?

It is quite possible that the Bacteria that is in our Earths upper atmosphere, could have been the host to inbound particles/meteor debris THAT, could have been impregnated with Particles, and therefore Bacteria from the debris that was ejected into our solar system from the Comet collision with Jupiter?

 

[chroot]

...like I said, where do you loonies come from?

Upon closer examination, it appears you loonies come from the UK. I shold have guessed.

- Warren

 

[ranyart]

Choot

Coot, what are you condeming?

Do you actually think EARTH, has the only molocules in the Solar System?..and Nothing enters the Earths Atmosphere..not even debris from Comets?

Comets have fine particulates that are theorized to contain minute molocules that may be deemed instrumental in distributing much needed 'catalytic',chemicals from Extra Solar cycles needed for the creation of life given elements.

Bacteria have a greater/more, life expectancy in space than Humans, if it was not fro this fact Humans would not have evolved!

Unless you are proposing that Bacteria evolved form Humans?

State your case, or shut your mooth!

 

[FZ+]

Originally posted by chroot
...like I said, where do you loonies come from?

Upon closer examination, it appears you loonies come from the UK. I shold have guessed.

- Warren

That is complete and utterly irrelevant. What does one's nationality have to do with any discussion? Please, if you like me disagree, then post a valid point.

Anyway... ranyart...

I am saying there is currently no proof for the existence of extraterrestrial bacteria, and no reason that such bacteria would share a genetic similarity to ones adapted on earth. And that comets do not go that far out to be considered the entire cosmos. I am also saying that it is rather unlikely that a completely unfamiliar virus would just happen to be very virulent against humans. How many comets have bacteria that cough and sneeze to transmit viruses in an atmosphere. It's a nice theory, but is trashed by the lack of any supporting evidence, and simpler, more probable alternatives.

 

[Brad_Ad23]

This might shed light on it for the rest of us:

April 25

SARS Possibly from Space, Scientists Tell Tabloid

Cardiff University researcher Chandra Wickramasinghe told the British tabloid newspaper The Sun that the deadly disease SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, might have come from outer space.

Wickramasinghe and his long-time collaborator, the late Sir Fred Hoyle, have for decades said the flu and other bugs rain down from above and could be responsible for outbreaks. The researchers have never provided any evidence that convinces mainstream scientists, however.

The SARS claim fits within a broader theory called panspermia, which holds that life itself did not originate on Earth but was delivered here, perhaps inside a comet. While panspermia was once scoffed at, most scientists have given it much more consideration in recent years.

Still, most experts say, it is not a logical leap to assume that any disease comes from space. Wickramasinghe has in the past claimed finding extraterrestrial microbes high in Earth's atmosphere, via balloon experiments. Other scientists say those bugs are probably of terrestrial origin.

In the new SARS claim, Wickramasinghe is joined by Milton Wainwright of Sheffield University, who said the novel nature of the virus and the fact it was first detected in China point to the possibility of ET origins. The virus causing the disease might have arrived protected inside a comet, hung out in Earth's upper atmosphere for a while, then been dragged down by the high peaks of the Himalayas, according to the article.

source: http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html

 

[ranyart]

Originally posted by FZ+
That is complete and utterly irrelevant. What does one's nationality have to do with any discussion? Please, if you like me disagree, then post a valid point.

Anyway... ranyart...

I am saying there is currently no proof for the existence of extraterrestrial bacteria, and no reason that such bacteria would share a genetic similarity to ones adapted on earth. And that comets do not go that far out to be considered the entire cosmos. I am also saying that it is rather unlikely that a completely unfamiliar virus would just happen to be very virulent against humans. How many comets have bacteria that cough and sneeze to transmit viruses in an atmosphere. It's a nice theory, but is trashed by the lack of any supporting evidence, and simpler, more probable alternatives.

Thanks FZ, I do know that it seems ulikely that a direct link is obvious, but as I have read a report by a University Prof,(I will try and dig out the link), who states that there is evidence of bacteria existence in the upper atmosphere, which may be floating around up there for many thousands of years, can sometimes be 'felled', and brought down to Earth by inbound objects within the Solar System?

At the time of the comet(can't recall the name of it)which impacted with Jupiter, therre was an interesting debate on a theory that at sometime in the future(after impact), debris would be ejected into space, and would be distributed throughout the Solar System, and it was thought that some may end up in the Earths Atmosphere?

This would be introducing molocule mixing to our allready diverse Bacteria that is prevelent and thriving,but it was probable that a NEW type of bacterial strain could develop, one which could have some interesting consequences.

I do not think that Earth is the sole Bacterial location of the Universe, infact there are some intermediate atoms clusters that are 'organic-bacteria-like', and these hardy molocules travel throughout the Cosmos and interject with colliding and producing new offspring?

 

[ranyart]

Originally posted by Brad_Ad23
This might shed light on it for the rest of us:



source: http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html

Thanks Brad, and this is correct. I had seen a news-report and this is the guy.

Interestingly, I had been reading about Hoyle some years ago, during the Comet Impact with Jupiter, and I recalled some thoughts I had at that time, whilst watching the impact, and seeing the huge impact clouds(it was much greater than had been predicted), I wondered if any of the debris could end up near our Earth. This coupled with the recent statements provided in your link got me thinking, its not my theory or anything, but I had recalled from sometime ago, this I think is relevant to Hoyle and co-workers.

Thanks again.

 

[Brad_Ad23]

Uh yes...but what disturbs me is they reported it to a Tabloid, specifically The Sun...

 

[ranyart]

AGREED!

But it may have been for the wider audiance? the sun has the greatest readership, and all said and done, its not a good source for general news, but a great source for publicity.

Here is another link;http://www.space.com/searchforlife/chandra_sidebar_001027.html

I was trying to find out some other evidence for delivery systems, IE the interations of Solar Wind or 'Charged Particle'interactions, but I am going to have to leave it for now.

It is a possibility, there are Dust Clouds throughout the Milkyway, and looking at the Timeline of the Jupiter Impact, I think there is a case for a large amount of debris being ejected into space, and some of that debris may have entered our amosphere, but I do not know if Chandra Wickramasinghe and collaboraters have considered this?

 

[Mike H]

Chandra Wickramasinghe?

He's still around? Oh dear.

For those of you who don't know, look up the court case McLean vs. Arkansas from 1981. If that doesn't convince you that Wickrasamsinghe should stay far, far away from any topic that involves biology, there are no words in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men to express my nausea.

 

[damgo]

SARS has been identified as a coronavirus, related to similar virii in humans and animals. It is highly probable that it jumped to humans from another species; this is rather common for virii in the crowded regions of China where SARS originated -- cf avian flu.

ranyart, why do you and others feel the Need to seemingly randomly Capitalize certain words like, say, 'Dust Cloud'? Is there some Scientific Method by which you select words to Capitalize?

 

[drag]

I think they currently say it came from cows.

Live long and prosper.

 

[ranyart]

Originally posted by damgo


ranyart, why do you and others feel the Need to seemingly randomly Capitalize certain words like, say, 'Dust Cloud'? Is there some Scientific Method by which you select words to Capitalize?

Well it an iritation by design for certain R-Souls who extend their nitpicking for Elocutional or Vocal proweress over the less educated?

Well Iam gald you noticed it..maybe you should start a whole website on literecy lessons?

Btw is that a gREEN tURD AVIATOR moulded from your own image?

 

[FZ+]

Ok, down with the personal attacks everyone, before this gets locked...

While I accept there is a vague probability of a bacterial infection from space... ok, very vague, maybe in the lines of "the andromeda strain" (Novel by Micheal Critchton, about a bacteria that was originally from earth, but was mutated in the upper atmosphere and recovered by satellite), what really seals this is the fact this is a viral infection. For viruses to breed, there must be some host. I think we all accept that. So, in space, there must somehow be a bacterial host with enough human similarities to allow a virus that infects it to transfer interspecifically to us. I think that is too much to take very seriously.

 

[damgo]

ranyart, I'm actually really curious -- I've noticed that a number of people do this, and I have never understood why, or how they decide what words to capitalize.

 

[marcus]

Originally posted by chroot
Where do you loonies come from anyway? Is there a training camp somewhere?

They rain down constantly from outer space.

Your comment, chroot, and the idea of a training camp
for loonies, gave me a moment of great joy.

 

[marcus]

Originally posted by damgo
ranyart, I'm actually really curious -- I've noticed that a number of people do this, and I have never understood why, or how they decide what words to capitalize.

In some writers it is part of a phony-antique style.
Irregular and often apparently whimsical capitalization
was a feature of 18th century English.
The faux-antique is an important part of the style menu,
I believe, for roleplaying gamers, fantasists, and
people whose pleasure it is to believe extravagant
and preposterous nonsense such as "Magick".
(note the faux-antique spelling Magick which Greg
uses on the main PF menu.)

But this is only some (not necessarily all) who capitalize for
parody or suchlike motives. I can say nothing
about these *particular* loonies since every
loonie is an individual mystery and law unto himself.

 

[RuroumiKenshin]

Originally posted by FZ+
But how can viruses evolve in space? Don't they require a living host?
And it seems unlikely that a virus should come down from space and just happen to be well adapted to surviving and thriving in humans, a lifeform it may not have come across ever...

viruses can mutate. take the influenza virus for example. taking tylonol over and over again won't do you any good for long...

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by MajinVegeta
viruses can mutate. take the influenza virus for example. taking tylonol over and over again won't do you any good for long...

Actually, tylenol NEVER does anything about the virus itself. Most people don't know this, but there are precisely ZERO viruses that we can treat directly. Every medicine you take for a virus only attacks the symptoms while your body fights the virus.

Ranyart, all kidding aside and since no one made this clear - that article has no scientific validity whatsoever.

Some people on this board tend to forget that not everyone is a phd physicist.

 

[damgo]

Dear Esteemed Sir, Mr. W____ :

Though it pains me to proffer what some might perceive as disagreement with a fellow Student of Natural Philosophy as yourself, I feel I can do naught but share the Knowledge I have received, through the grace of God and the diligence of our fellow Doctors of Medicine.

These tiny Organisms, which seem so tiny as to be harmless, yet are the source of some of Man's most vicious Maladies, viz., the Virii, do indeed pose some considerable Difficulty in the matter of Treatment. Yet, the combined wisdom of Science, after much effort, has found a number of ways by which the Virus itself may be attacked.

To the end of sharing this Knowledge, of which, perchance, I may flatter myself in thinking you may have previously been unaware, I would humbly like to direct your attention to such antiviral Agents as zanamivir. This Agent, through the recondite mechanisms of Chemistry, renders certain Viral Enzymes effectless, thereby directly working to cure the unfortunate sufferer of a particular Malady, here being cruel Influenza, which yearly works its ravages upon the heretofore helpless Public.

With greatest Respects,
your humble servant,
A Damgo.

 

[marcus]

this is excellent
and can actually be read aloud:
Yet the combined wisdom of Science [comma]
after much effort [comma]
has found a number of ways by which the virus itself may be attacked...

This Agent [comma]
through the recondite mechanisms of Chemistry [comma]
renders certain Viral Enzymes effectless,...

the choice of words in "the recondite mechanisms of Chemistry"
is exquisite (and of course a sly dig at chemists in general)
and "effectless" is apt as well.

I am sorry to run the risk of embarrassing damgo
but it appears that by some fluke he knows how to
write like an educated contemporary of Thomas Jefferson, which is very good writing indeed.

BTW the comma in "Yet the combined wisdom" should probably be suppressed. Each pause must count for something.
And there must be continual variation of pacing and rhythm---
for example "recondite" can be read with stress either on first or second syllable and I recommend the second, so that it contrasts with mechanism---reCONdite MECHanism. This is a matter of taste and another person might choose differently. Anyway a very nice passage and funny as all get-out to boot.
People either learn to do it by studying classical models
or else they just have a good ear and get the hang of it.

Any attempt to respond in kind would fall flat so I wont
even try. Just say bravo, also LOL.

Originally posted by damgo
Dear Esteemed Sir, Mr. W____ :

Though it pains me to proffer what some might perceive as disagreement with a fellow Student of Natural Philosophy as yourself, I feel I can do naught but share the Knowledge I have received, through the grace of God and the diligence of our fellow Doctors of Medicine.

These tiny Organisms, which seem so tiny as to be harmless, yet are the source of some of Man's most vicious Maladies, viz., the Virii, do indeed pose some considerable Difficulty in the matter of Treatment. Yet, the combined wisdom of Science, after much effort, has found a number of ways by which the Virus itself may be attacked.

To the end of sharing this Knowledge, of which, perchance, I may flatter myself in thinking you may have previously been unaware, I would humbly like to direct your attention to such antiviral Agents as zanamivir. This Agent, through the recondite mechanisms of Chemistry, renders certain Viral Enzymes effectless, thereby directly working to cure the unfortunate sufferer of a particular Malady, here being cruel Influenza, which yearly works its ravages upon the heretofore helpless Public.

With greatest Respects,
your humble servant,
A Damgo.

 

[Janus]

Originally posted by ranyart


Comets have fine particulates that are theorized to contain minute molocules that may be deemed instrumental in distributing much needed 'catalytic',chemicals from Extra Solar cycles needed for the creation of life given elements.

Bacteria have a greater/more, life expectancy in space than Humans, if it was not fro this fact Humans would not have evolved!

Unless you are proposing that Bacteria evolved form Humans?

A basic problem here is that you keep mentioning bacteria. S.A.R.S. is a virus, and the two are completely different things.

Bacteria are fully functioning organisms complete with reproductive ability of their own.

Viruses are much simpler. More or less just DNA in a protein sheath. They can only reproduce by inserting the DNA into another living cell, taking it over and turning the cells own reproductive ability into a virus factory, Eventually, the cell bursts and releases the newly made viruses out to find more host cells.

Viruses have to be more tailor-made for the organism they will invade.

 

[ranyart]

Originally posted by Janus
A basic problem here is that you keep mentioning bacteria. S.A.R.S. is a virus, and the two are completely different things.

Bacteria are fully functioning organisms complete with reproductive ability of their own.

Viruses are much simpler. More or less just DNA in a protein sheath. They can only reproduce by inserting the DNA into another living cell, taking it over and turning the cells own reproductive ability into a virus factory, Eventually, the cell bursts and releases the newly made viruses out to find more host cells.

Viruses have to be more tailor-made for the organism they will invade.

Yes Janus you are correct, and the original posting should have been more technical, I do appologize.

The original post was to delve into the productive evolution of 'planet to planet' dispersion of bacteria molocules. I have seen reports whereby particles interact in the upper atmosphere, the cosmic showers of high energy particles interact there, and if there is any Bacteria-like substance allready there, could this environment be a catalyst for change in the make-up of oganisms?.

 

[The_oMeGa]

Originally posted by FZ+
But how can viruses evolve in space? Don't they require a living host?
And it seems unlikely that a virus should come down from space and just happen to be well adapted to surviving and thriving in humans, a lifeform it may not have come across ever...

No, not all viruses require a living host, but i do think the entire idea of life from outer space is total bs. First off, we have absolutely no evidence that life can come from other planets other than some guy's claims to have sent a balloon up and found e.t. microbes. Second, and not that this is required, but there is no atmospheric oxygen on Jupiter, is there? Water? 3rd, what was its energy source on these other planets? (which to our knowledge, contain no life) 4rd, if it is e.t., then why is it incredibly similar to hundreds of viruses already present on earth. Did all of these originate from space? psshh...
These factors and many more narrow the odds of this down to ****.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by damgo
Yet, the combined wisdom of Science, after much effort, has found a number of ways by which the Virus itself may be attacked.

To the end of sharing this Knowledge, of which, perchance, I may flatter myself in thinking you may have previously been unaware, I would humbly like to direct your attention to such antiviral Agents as zanamivir. This Agent, through the recondite mechanisms of Chemistry, renders certain Viral Enzymes effectless, thereby directly working to cure the unfortunate sufferer of a particular Malady, here being cruel Influenza, which yearly works its ravages upon the heretofore helpless Public.

Thanks damgo - and its interesting that progress is being made - but I've never seen that drug on the market. Still in testing?

 

[damgo]

Naa, it's approved: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/zanam.htm

There are actually a bunch of antiviral agents out, but I think they tend to have a lot of side effects. The HIV ones are the most well-known, but I know they have some now for herpes and some other virii too...

 

[FZ+]

Originally posted by The_oMeGa
No, not all viruses require a living host, but i do think the entire idea of life from outer space is total bs.

They don't? Hmm... I thought the distinction between viruses and other things is that viruses require a living cell to reproduce. That is certainly true for this particular virus of SARS...

 

[The_oMeGa]

My bad, I meant that not all viruses require a living host to survive. Viruses like smallpox not only require a living host to produce the next generation but also to live. This is why we have completely eradicated small pox, because once everyone was vaccinated, it was unable mutate and died out.