Sabertooth cats and other extinct mammals

  • Thread starter Andre
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In summary: So, the usual depiction of these predators is with a black fur.So, would it make sense to depict Homotherium with a black fur, too?It would make sense to depict Homotherium with a black fur, because it is a predator of the colder biotopes.
  • #1
Andre
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Were does a thread go on extinct animals? It's not 'bio' anymore. So perhaps the Earth files.

The first of December a new 28000 words book is being launched in The Netherlands, title: The Homotherium, Saber-toothed Cat. It's Dutch of course, but it's already translated. A short fragment:

Then his professional attention becomes focused on an unusual fossil in the crate. A lower jaw of a predator. Some molars are still present. The large canine has been lost, but the socket where it has been rooted, is still present as a large hole at the front of the jaw. The jaw bone is of a feline type, characterized by the low number of molars. His first impression is that the jaw is too small for a lion, another feline predator with only three molars in each lower jaw. Fossil remains of extinct cave lions are not uncommon between the collected fossils from the North Sea; hence this predator must have been a successful predator of the Pleistocene Mammoth steppe.

But this jawbone in the hand of K is most definitely not a cave lion. It must be another predator. The general morphology, the shape of the jaw is quite different than what he usually encounters from the North Sea fauna. A saber-toothed cat? No, that can’t be, those are very rare, there is only one Saber-toothed fossil in the Netherlands. Saber-toothed remains are usually one to two million years old and heavily mineralized, petrified. If you tap on those with a heavy object, you hear a high pitched tone. K is rather familiar with those remains. This particular jaw is barely petrified. ...

But it was a saber-toothed cat, Homotherium latidens to be exact, carbon dated around 28300 years. Unheard of, since the youngest Homotherium fossil in Europe is about 300,000 years old. This was the direct incentive to write that book.

So what do you want to know about this subfamily Machairodontina of the Felidae family?
 
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  • #2
It's easy to see the major difference between an European http://www.bluelion.org/images/eulionmandiblesm.jpg about which that fragment tells about.

There is a good reason why the top of back side of the Sabertooth is much flatter compared to all other predators, actually all other mammals in general, with a distinct vertical part at the back. It needed to open its mouth real real wide >100 degrees to bring the large canines into biting position. A strong elevated back side of the mandible would have prevented that.
 
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  • #3
Homotherium serum was extant in North America to circa 10000 years ago, AFAIK.
H latidens, was still around, too. I thought it went extinct further back. I guess not.

This paleontologist's blog talks about late survival in Europe. The Isturitz statuette pictured on his site is obviously a contemporary felid... it's does appear to be Homotherium, or something like him.

There is clearly something important I am missing here - that you are implying. Is there some question about the validaity of the new find?

http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/03/late-survival-of-homotherium-confirmed.html
 
  • #4
jim mcnamara said:
Homotherium serum was extant in North America to circa 10000 years ago, AFAIK.
H latidens, was still around, too. I thought it went extinct further back. I guess not.

This paleontologist's blog talks about late survival in Europe. The Isturitz statuette pictured on his site is obviously a contemporary felid... it's does appear to be Homotherium, or something like him.

There is clearly something important I am missing here - that you are implying. Is there some question about the validaity of the new find?

http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/03/late-survival-of-homotherium-confirmed.html

Mind I was talking about Europe not North America where also Smilodon fatalis, S. californicus roamed the countryside. That link tells about the same story. And yes there was a big fuss to get the discovery recognized.

The book is about the history and development of the complete subfamily thoughout the Cenozoic. It elaborates about some dozen finding sites, and it also covers the other evidence of late Homotherium in Europe like the statuette and some more.

Another element in the book is the reconstruction of an anatomical correct live size model, of which I took some pictures:

edit: the pictures:

http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/133272/victims-view.JPG
http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/133275/the-beast.JPG
 
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  • #5
Are the model's fur patterns based on the statuette, pieces of preserved hide, or artistic license? Existing boreal felids are not like that at all.
 
  • #6
The manuscript:"The felines of the warmer biotopes often have furs with variations of a brown to yellow color. Therefore, the usual depiction of Smilodon is with a brown fur.

Consequently, with Smilodon as example, Homotherium is also depicted with a brown fur. But would this be correct?

The predators of the colder biotopes, like the wolf, and the snow panther tend to have furs in various shades of grey.
 
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  • #7
I'm sure a moderator can combine the posts for you.

Meanwhile,
it's nice looking at visual data, but is the fact that we are not discussing the validity of the data mean that Andre's convinced? Is the fur purely artist representation?
 
  • #8
After asking around among some folks I know, I vote for artistic license. According to folks at the Natural History Museum, there are no known cave paintings of Homotherium.
As my older kids say, "bummer."

Apparently a lot of reconstructions use the paintings as a color guide for models of pleistocene aurochs, etc. After all, those guys were eyewitnesses. I'd like to know for sure, too, if that's possible.
 
  • #9
And note: Greg B. showed up online today. He seems able to fix most problems. Although it really sounds to me like you got a new keyboard and the drivers are not right.
 
  • #10
#1 - I'd say that the difference between "various shades of grey" and, for instance, orange-purple is the difference between educated guess and artistic licence.

#2 - The problem was identical on two completely independent computers.
 
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  • #11
#2 - The problem was identical on two completely independent computers.
Through the same internet connection (routers, etc)? You seem to be able to post now, and no one else had the problem - AFAIK. That limits it to something common to your independent computers. Or the revenge of the spirit of Homotherium... :smile:

-- I lived for years with people who would opt for the second statement blaming spirits as an absolutely perfect explanation for your problem. FWIW.
 
  • #12
No, computers were ~5 km apart (home - work). But likely from the same German provider. Have seen compatibility problems before
 
  • #13
Some impressions of http://www.sabeltandtijger.eu/voorbeelden.php .

I see that they called it the "Sabeltand-tijger" instead of the "Sabeltand-kat" from the North sea. Tiger is formally nonsense because the sabretooths are a separate group and no more related to tigers than lions or panthers. They are not even more closely related to the http://www.skulls-skeletons.com/catalog/images/Cloaded-Leopard.jpg , the cat with the longest canines (relative to the body)
 
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  • #14
Meanwhile I'm translating the picture captions now. The English version should be available in March 2008.
 
  • #15
We're still on track. Just finished the first version of the final draft. Whew. Big discussions about the Friesenhahn cave near Austin, the La Brea tarpits. Was the Homotherium latidens a social hunter like the lion, the hyena or the wolf? His sort of hyena type of body shape, -long distance runner- suggests so, but most cats are solitary although recent observations with tigers reveals that they are less solitary than generally assumed.
 
  • #16
So I got a mail from the publisher yesterday, the lay out of the book is ready except...

He totally forgot to give us the abstract on the back cover. So I translated that today with high priority. It goes like this (first preliminary rough draft):

THE SABER-TOOTHED CAT FROM THE NORTH SEA.


It was in March 2000 when a Dutch fish cutter of the village Urk retrieved a fossil lower jaw bone of a sabre-toothed cat (Homotherium latidens) from the North Sea floor. Generally, it is assumed that this Eurasian species was extinct for some 300,000-400,000 years. Nonetheless, this jawbone was dated to 28,000 years with the radio carbon method. This sensational finding and additional scientific information has been the incentive to produce this informative and abundantly illustrated book, providing unique and never before published images.

The authors narrate about the North Sea floor as a prosperous source of abundant fossil mammal remains from the Pleistocene Epoch also known as the ice age. In addition they give the best possible impression of the subfamily of sabre-toothed cats and its evolution in the different habitats, among which the formerly dry North Sea landscape. They also elaborate about its hunting techniques and most important game, like for instance woolly mammoths, woolly rhinos and steppe bisons. Furthermore, ample attention is given to the determination and dating of the jaw, other evidence of late Pleistocene presence of this species in Europe as well as the most important fossil finding places of saber-toothed cats world wide.

Of course it will be completely overhauled by a native tongue editor.
 
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  • #17
Today I received the PDF with the final draft for a last scrutiny round. It's indeed an awsome book, actually many many pictures, paintings and drawings with some text in between, encompassing about everything what is known about saber toothed cats. the preface of Prof Alan Turner was new to me. His final remark:

This book offers a fascinating insight into the recovery of the material and sets the discovery of a late Pleistocene Homotherium very much into the living context of the animal. With this English edition it also serves a larger purpose in bringing to a wider audience an appreciation of just how important the North Sea sediments are and will continue to be for our understanding of the prehistory and palaeoecology of the buried landscape that once joined the British Isles to the continent of Europe.
 
  • #18
Well, the final draft has been corrected and the book is in print.
 
  • #19
Meanwhile, Dick Mol received the first book from the publisher. He was elated. The quality of the print is much better, he says, than the original Dutch version. In the next week the bulk of the books will arrive from China.
 
  • #20


Got my copy now too and indeed my name is in it. Interesting, they made only the big canine on the front cover glossy while the rest is dim giving a remarkeble perpective.
 
  • #21


I missed this because it had been moved to biology. It seems more appropriate in the History section.

Congrats Andre!
 
  • #22


Thanks! Evo
 

1. What is a Sabertooth cat?

A Sabertooth cat, also known as a Smilodon, was a large predatory mammal that lived during the Pleistocene era. It is known for its impressive saber-like teeth that were used to take down prey.

2. When did Sabertooth cats exist?

Sabertooth cats existed during the Pleistocene era, which lasted from about 2.6 million years ago to 11,700 years ago. They were most prevalent in North and South America.

3. What caused the extinction of Sabertooth cats?

The exact cause of Sabertooth cat extinction is still debated among scientists. Some theories suggest that climate change, competition with other predators, and decrease in prey populations may have contributed to their demise.

4. Were there other extinct mammals besides Sabertooth cats?

Yes, there were many other extinct mammals during the Pleistocene era. Some well-known examples include woolly mammoths, giant ground sloths, and dire wolves.

5. Is it possible for Sabertooth cats or other extinct mammals to be cloned back to life?

At this time, it is not possible to clone Sabertooth cats or other extinct mammals back to life. While scientists have made advancements in cloning technology, it is still a complex and ethically controversial process. Additionally, the DNA of extinct mammals is often too fragmented or damaged to be used for cloning.

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