Samoan anti-vaxxer arrested

  • #1
jim mcnamara
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50682881

A leading Samoan critic of vaccinations who claims Vitamin C will cure measles was arrested in Samoa. There is a measles epidemic there, as of this post there have been 63 fatalities which were directly asttributed to measles infections, mostly in small children.

So, is this like the laws in some US cities against yelling 'Fire' in a jammed assembly - like a movie theater? When your opinion or sense of humor actively causes severe harm....
 

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  • #2
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Maybe to protect him from the parents of these 63.

If Samoa made vaccination compulsory and he calls publically to break this law, then a charge with incitement against a government order seems logical. Compulsory would otherwise be meaningless.You cannot run around and call on people to commit homicide either. And this is ipso facto the same thing.
 
  • #3
phinds
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I agree w/ @fresh_42. Ignorance of science is no excuse for promoting death and that's what this guy is doing and that would be true even if they had not made vaccination compulsory.
 
  • #5
Evo
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It's so hard for me to even wrap my head around how people can be so stupid, but I see it all of the time, some people are willing to readily accept false information over scientifically and medically proven information.

There was a vegan ranting online the other day that animals don't naturally contain vitamin B12, that they are fed supplements of B12 that artificially get into the meat. He said that the majority of doctors and scientists agree that veganism is the healthiest diet, and he learned this by doing research. I wanted to ask if his research was done on a vegan website.
 
  • #6
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It's so hard for me to even wrap my head around how people can be so stupid
I met a homeopath who wanted to cure her nephew's diabetes I with homeopathic means ...

I wonder whether those people refuse polio and tetanus vaccination, too?
 
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  • #7
Evo
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I met a homeopath who wanted to cure her nephew's diabetes I with homeopathic means ...

I wonder whether those people refuse polio and tetanus vaccination, too?
Perhaps they get homeopathic vaccinations? :))
 
  • #8
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Hear about the homeopath who overdosed on his medication? He forgot to take it.

I have a problem prosecuting people for saying stupid things. I also have a problem when this is done to some clown on Facebook, and not celebrities.

I have no problem prosecuting people for practicing medicine without a license.
 
  • #9
WWGD
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It seems like Africa's Congo Kinshasa is also having a measles crisis , together with anti-vaxx ( mostly foreign) morons. It seems 1164 related deaths since September.
 
  • #11
Evo
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I have no problem prosecuting people for practicing medicine without a license.
Well, he was giving medical advice to treat measles with Vitamin C and papaya and medical advice against vaccines. He was giving medical advice, he doesn't have a license.
 
  • #12
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have a problem prosecuting people for saying stupid things.
I don't. There are limits. The German lawyers drew the line when people are directly addressed to believe in such lies for political reasons. We call it "Volksverhetzung". It is mainly meant not to allow holocaust deniers. One of the lessons we had to learn from the Weimar republic, which had a far more liberal constitution. A constitution which led us directly into the known last century's catastrophe. Liberty ends at the point when it affects others'.
 
  • #13
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Well, he was giving medical advice to treat measles with Vitamin C and papaya and medical advice against vaccines. He was giving medical advice, he doesn't have a license.
That is a tricky subject - practicing medicine and medical advice - medical advice being in more of a grey area.

Isn't medical advice particular to the licensed physician/patient interaction.
If he said he was a doctor then that would be along the lines of malpractice if he was advising a particular person.

Magazines, your friends, websites, people mouthing off, would all have to be engaging in giving medical advice if t hey tell you to take vitamin C for your cold.
Because the "illness" is measles does that change the very loose definition of medical advice.
 
  • #14
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That is a tricky subject - practicing medicine and medical advice - medical advice being in more of a grey area.
It's not the medical advice in this case:
If Samoa made vaccination compulsory and he calls publically to break this law, then a charge with incitement against a government order seems logical.
You cannot run around and tell people to break laws. They do their best to protect everyone and around comes dumb joe and tells them not to take measures? This is a case of emergency, and there is no time to pamper morons.
 
  • #15
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It's not the medical advice in this case:

You cannot run around and tell people to break laws. They do their best to protect everyone and around comes dumb joe and tells them not to take measures? This is a case of emergency, and there is no time to pamper morons.
I had heard of the measles in Congo, but not Samoa until this post.

Civil disobedience and inciting others to do the same.
Never said it wasn't.
His individual rights of expressing his opinion blunted up against the collective rights of society.
He should face it he screwed up by being a cocky duffness.
It must be tough is these places when the naysayers try to get a hold on the population ( ie anti-vaxers moving in ), gives me a creepy feeling, like vultures circling overhead waiting ready for prey.
 
  • #16
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There was another obvious solution: give the man a jar of vitamin C ($2) and lock him up with a measles patient for two hours. Problem solved.
 
  • #17
Evo
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That is a tricky subject - practicing medicine and medical advice - medical advice being in more of a grey area.

Isn't medical advice particular to the licensed physician/patient interaction.
If he said he was a doctor then that would be along the lines of malpractice if he was advising a particular person.

Magazines, your friends, websites, people mouthing off, would all have to be engaging in giving medical advice if t hey tell you to take vitamin C for your cold.
Because the "illness" is measles does that change the very loose definition of medical advice.
According to the article
Mr Tamasese had spoken out against vaccines on Facebook, instead promoting using ineffective remedies such as papaya leaf extract to treat the deadly illness.
Before his arrest, he had described the government's mass vaccination programme as "the greatest crime against our people", and falsely claimed vitamin C could cure the infected children.
He wasn't impersonating a doctor but giving out false medical advice, apparently to a large enough audience and causing enough people to take his advice to be noticed by the authorities.

I was just putting it forth to V50, that I feel it's similarly bad, although you can practice medicine without a license and cause no harm, this guy IS causing harm.

It's why we do not allow people to give medical advice on PF. You do not know what even the most seemingly innocent advice can be harmful or deadly to people you do not know.
 
  • #18
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I would argue that he is practicing medicine without a license. I am more comfortable prosecuting someone for that than for saying something that the government doesn't like (and yes, I know that in most of the world that's reason enough for prison or worse). For example, "Virodene doesn't cure AIDS" is a medical fact, but at one time contrary to the position of the RSA government.
 
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  • #19
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I am more comfortable prosecuting someone for that than for saying something that the government doesn't like
This is not the case. They have a case of emergency, not a different political opinion. I wouldn't like people calling for homicide either, even if that is their opinion! And he does ipso facto exactly this! It makes a difference whether he says something stupid like this in a usual situation, but he actively attacks all efforts to stem the crisis. It is an act of sabotage! You get arrested for less on mainland.

He can do whatever he wants, but not risking other (!) peoples lives.
 
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  • #20
Stephen Tashi
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I'm curious whether contemporary strains of measles are more harmful that the measles of the 1950's. When I was a kid, many children were expected to get measles and I did not disappoint.
 
  • #21
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I'm curious whether contemporary strains of measles are more harmful that the measles of the 1950's. When I was a kid, many children were expected to get measles and I did not disappoint.
Me, too, had it. But it wasn't funny. I had the MMR later on because of the other M. It's so easy and quick. I cannot understand people who deliberately become sick. The high fever alone is a strain.
 
  • #22
Evo
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My brother became seriously ill with the measles, had a fever so high he began to hallucinate and had to be taken to the hospital. I remember how scared my mother was.
 
  • #23
Bandersnatch
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Somebody should also arrest JFK's nephew.
 
  • #24
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My brother became seriously ill with the measles, had a fever so high he began to hallucinate and had to be taken to the hospital. I remember how scared my mother was.
As a kid, having had measles, as probably most did around the immediate area, ( including mumps, chicken pox, and who knows what else ) I do not recall any fatalities, as if as a kid I would recognize anything about the danger. ( Went to school with one kid got polio - right foot and arm weaker - but didn't stop him from sports )
 
  • #25
WWGD
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