Schwarzschild Geodesics: An Overview

In summary, the conversation discusses the derivation of equations in a paper on numerical relativity, specifically how the author derived the equation v1(0)=1D⋅tanα from v0(0)=1D. There is confusion about the use of distance and radial coordinates, as well as the notation and approximation used in the paper. The conversation also explores potential sources for learning about numerical relativity.
  • #1
Goldman clarck
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TL;DR Summary
Hi, I started reading this ![paper](https://github.com/Python-simulation/Black-hole-simulation-using-python/blob/master/Black%20hole%20simulation.pdf) dealing with the simulation of a Schwarzschild black hole in python, what I didn't understand is how did the author of the paper derive ##v_1 (0) = \frac{1}{D \cdot \tan \alpha}## from ##v_0 (0) = \frac{1}{D}##?
Can anyone here kindly provide an answer.
(Below are screenshots from the paper)
[Mentors' note: edited to fix the Latex]
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  • #2
Goldman clarck said:
what I didn't understand is how did the author of the paper derive v1(0)=1D⋅tanα from v0(0)=1D?

I don't know, and I'm not even sure why those equations make sense. It looks like those equations are taken from reference [5], not derived in the paper itself.

What I don't understand is where the distance ##D## is coming from, since the radial coordinate ##r## in Schwarzschild coordinates does not equal radial distance, and since there is no spatial "center" to the black hole anyway (##r = 0## is not a point at the center, it's a spacelike like to the future of every event inside the horizon). So I'm not sure what the author of the paper thinks he is doing.
 
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  • #3
I watched the video he referred to, the video is in french by the way and doesn't provide any explanation to how the second equation has been derived, except mentioning that ##u' = \frac{1}{D \cdot tan \alpha}## is the derivative of ##u = \frac{1}{D}## when ##\phi = 0##, where ##D## is the distance between the black hole and the observer and ##\alpha## defining the initial direction of the photon.
I've been trying the whole day but with no success, now I'm confused.
 
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  • #4
Goldman clarck said:
xcept mentioning that ##u' = \frac{1}{D \cdot \alpha}## is the derivative of ##u = \frac{1}{D}## when ##\phi = 0##, where ##D## is the distance between the black hole and the observer and ##\alpha## defining the initial direction of the photon.

Hm, ok, if he's using the standard method of rewriting the orbital equations, where ##u = 1 / r##, then I can see why he would say that the value of ##u## at time ##0## (which is what I think he means by ##v_0##, although his notation is very confusing) would be ##1 / D##--but that's still only correct in the approximation where we are very far from the hole, so "distance from the hole" can be taken as a good approximation of the radial coordinate ##r##. But if he means to include trajectories of photons close to the hole's horizon, then this approximation no longer works.

In general, I don't think this is a good source from which to try to learn how to do numerical simulations in GR.
 
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  • #5
If ##u = \frac{1}{D}## is correct as an approximation (the source he stated uses the Euler method to solve the light path around a the Schwarzschild spacetime) then how ##u' = \frac{1}{D \cdot tan \alpha}## (which is confusingly denoted as ##v_1(0)## in the paper) was derived from ##u = \frac{1}{D}## when ##\phi = 0##, do you have any idea please? and what books, articles or any other source would you suggest for me to start with numerical relativity if you don't mind me asking?
 
  • #6
Goldman clarck said:
If ##u = \frac{1}{D}## is correct as an approximation (the source he stated uses the Euler method to solve the light path around a the Schwarzschild spacetime) then how ##u' = \frac{1}{D \cdot tan \alpha}## (which is confusingly denoted as ##v_1(0)## in the paper) was derived from ##u = \frac{1}{D}## when ##\phi = 0##,

The ##\phi = 0## part is just because he has to choose some particular value of ##\phi## as the "initial" value (the word "initial" is a bit misleading since the trajectory can be extended into both the future and the past from this point).

I'm not sure how he's deriving ##u' = \frac{1}{D \cdot tan \alpha}## since the initial value of ##u## should be a position, not a velocity. Again, I don't think this is a good source to learn from.

Goldman clarck said:
what books, articles or any other source would you suggest for me to start with numerical relativity

Unfortunately I don't have any good references to suggest, since I have not studied numerical relativity. Possibly some other posters here might.
 
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  • #7
Thank you @PeterDonis for the valuable time you spent discussing the thread, really appreciate it.
 
  • #8
Goldman clarck said:
Thank you

You're welcome!
 

1. What are Schwarzschild geodesics?

Schwarzschild geodesics are the paths that particles follow in the spacetime around a non-rotating, spherically symmetric mass, such as a black hole. They are the natural paths that particles would take in the absence of any external forces.

2. How are Schwarzschild geodesics calculated?

Schwarzschild geodesics are calculated using the Schwarzschild metric, which is a mathematical description of the curved spacetime around a spherically symmetric mass. The equations for geodesic paths can be derived from this metric using the principles of general relativity.

3. What is the significance of Schwarzschild geodesics?

Schwarzschild geodesics play a crucial role in understanding the behavior of particles in the vicinity of massive objects, such as black holes. They also help us understand the effects of gravity on the motion of objects in the universe.

4. Can Schwarzschild geodesics be observed?

Schwarzschild geodesics cannot be directly observed, as they are purely mathematical constructs. However, their effects can be observed through the motion of particles in the presence of massive objects, which can be detected through various astronomical observations and experiments.

5. Are there any limitations to the use of Schwarzschild geodesics?

While Schwarzschild geodesics provide a powerful tool for understanding the behavior of particles in the presence of massive objects, they are based on the assumptions of a non-rotating, spherically symmetric mass. This means they may not accurately describe the behavior of particles in more complex situations, such as rotating black holes or systems with multiple masses.

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