Scientific take on telekinesis

[Snip3r]

i recently came across stan lee's superhumans in which a man claims to have telekinetic powers. Although i couldn't believe most of the super human abilities shown atleast i could convince myself they were possible under established laws of physics. But this one clearly threw me away. Earlier i thought telekinesis were illusions performed by magicians. now i am more skeptic. i spent a lot of time on net to know the scientific basis of telekinesis but to no avail. Also i found on wikipedia if this exists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Scientific_view it will contradict some well established laws of physics like inverse square law and 2nd law of thermodynamics can some one please explain me about this? Please feel free to move this to appropriate forum topic as i am not sure. I m literally dying for an answer

thx

 

[DaveC426913]

I m literally dying for an answer

No, you're figuratively dying for an answer.

i recently came across stan lee's superhumans in which a man claims to have telekinetic powers. Although i couldn't believe most of the super human abilities shown atleast i could convince myself they were possible under established laws of physics. But this one clearly threw me away. Earlier i thought telekinesis were illusions performed by magicians. now i am more skeptic. i spent a lot of time on net to know the scientific basis of telekinesis but to no avail. Also i found on wikipedia if this exists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#Scientific_view it will contradict some well established laws of physics like inverse square law and 2nd law of thermodynamics can some one please explain me about this? Please feel free to move this to appropriate forum topic as i am not sure. I m literally dying for an answer

thx

What exactly is your question? Is telekinesis real? So far no one seems to have come forth with convincing evidence of it. If someone could do it, there's a LOT of money in it for them. Do you know of any test cases with convincing evidence?

 

[Snip3r]

No, you're figuratively dying for an answer.

lol!

What exactly is your question? Is telekinesis real? So far no one seems to have come forth with convincing evidence of it. If someone could do it, there's a LOT of money in it for them. Do you know of any test cases with convincing evidence?

Yes i want to know if its really possible? i don't have any evidence other than what i saw on TV what made me worry is i couldn't brush it aside as it was shown in one of the prominent channels "history tv" (would they really make money showing some scams?)

 

[micromass]

Yes i want to know if its really possible?

No.

i don't have any evidence other than what i saw on TV what made me worry is i couldn't brush it aside as it was shown in one of the prominent channels "history tv" (would they really make money showing some scams?)

Oh, the prominent history channel. You mean, the same guys who produce things like ancient aliens?? I don't really think that they are the most believable source out there...

 

[OmCheeto]

would they really make money showing some scams?

They make money by airing programs that people find entertaining.
I canceled my cable years ago.

Stan Lee's Superhumans

Darren Taylor "Professor Splash" of Denver, Colorado, who can survive a 35-foot belly flop into 1 foot of water.

John Ferraro of Boston, Massachusetts, whose thick skull can withstand the blow of a sledgehammer

I see I haven't missed much.

What did I hear on the radio the other day? The National Geographic Channel is chasing aliens?

The Mayans were right. The Earth is doomed.

 

[Snip3r]

Oh, the prominent history channel. You mean, the same guys who produce things like ancient aliens?? I don't really think that they are the most believable source out there...

today i saw it on discovery. also saw a man with similar ability called by them as 'human stun gun' who knocks out people without touching them. seriously i am confused

 

[Snip3r]

They make money by airing programs that people find entertaining.

what does that mean?they are cheating people to earn money?

Stan Lee's Superhumans

Darren Taylor "Professor Splash" of Denver, Colorado, who can survive a 35-foot belly flop into 1 foot of water.

John Ferraro of Boston, Massachusetts, whose thick skull can withstand the blow of a sledgehammer

btw I see both of them in guinness record

 

[phinds]

what does that mean?they are cheating people to earn money?

Absolutely. They produce shows that are full of pure garbage because people will watch them and thus advertisers will pay for them.

 

[Snip3r]

Absolutely. They produce shows that are full of pure garbage because people will watch them and thus advertisers will pay for them.

i am stunned. Is there any credible source out there in media btw?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

There is no way that telekinesis could work in our current understanding of physics and biology. There simply is no mechanism for thought processes to move something without using an intervening body.

Also there has never been a proper observation of any super/psychic/magic power and they have been looked into extensively. If even 0.001% of all the claims out there regarding people who can read minds, see the future, move objects, talk to the dead etc etc were true then we would have thousands of case studies wherein people can just turn up to a controlled environment and perform a simple task well within their powers and bingo we'd have evidence. As it is you only ever see these people demonstrating their "powers" on TV shows whose purpose is to entertain you so that they can make money off of advertising. Ask yourself; if those TV mediums were actually real then you could just put one in one room, one in another, get the first to pass on a message to a nearby ghost and ask it to pass it along to the other. Simple tests like that have been done and every time people fail. James Randi has dedicated his life to looking into these things and even with his very simple challenge no-one has ever demonstrated anything.

A good indication of this is this clip of Randi debunking a famous psychic who claimed to have telekinetic powers. It's brilliant, the psychic demonstrates his power for the audience, Randi modifies the test in a tiny way that would reveal any foul play and suddenly he can't do it.

 

[phinds]

i am stunned. Is there any credible source out there in media btw?

No. Not in the popular media. BBC and CNN are relatively free from the garbage but ONLY relatiavely, not absolutely. There was a thread here a few weeks ago about utter crap on CNN. I have not personally experienced anything really awful on BBC (the TV show or the web site).

ALL of the more popular channels (History, Discovery, etc) are just full of nonsense when it comes to hard science. The have occasional facts thrown in, probably because they don't know any better or they'd get it wrong all of the time.

They DO have really pretty graphics though.

Oh, and Morgan Freeman has a terrific voice. (too bad the writers fill it with garbage)

 

[someGorilla]

Funny how all of these people only use their superpowers for futile purposes. Snip3r, if you had telekinesis would you spend your time levitating pencils or bending spoons on tv? What a sad life!
I had a discussion with a guy who wanted to convince me he had seen some Indian guru produce gold powder from his fingers. Why gold powder I asked him, what's it good for? Of course gold symbolizes wealth, luxury, beauty, even purity, so that's why. But why doesn't he produce something more valuable from his fingers, for example DUNG? It would be useful to fertilize the fields. But it wouln't have the same appeal on the masses I fear. If you could produce matter from your fingers, would you make gold powder to be dispersed into the wind?
He answered I was overrationalizing. *shrug*

 

[phinds]

I think people who believe in telekenesis are the kind of people who never stop to think about why it is that aliens always seem to land in some pig farmers south forty and disappear before the media show up.

 

[micromass]

today i saw it on discovery. also saw a man with similar ability called by them as 'human stun gun' who knocks out people without touching them. seriously i am confused

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V791w0TV3uA

 

[Evo]

LOL! His toungue was in the wrong place. Yeah right. Or maybe he moved his toes. Uh-huh.

 

[Jimmy]

LOL! His toungue was in the wrong place. Yeah right. Or maybe he moved his toes. Uh-huh.

Ha! That's what I tell my dad when he has trouble with a fiddly device.

Reminds me of these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqXWMtbvkQ

 

[Snip3r]

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V791w0TV3uA

thanks for that link i was rofl :rofl: hearing the reason.too bad this video is not going to be popular among the masses

i wonder if mainstream physics can survive the battle of natural selection

 

[micromass]

another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

 

[OmCheeto]

what does that mean?they are cheating people to earn money?

btw I see both of them in guinness record

Skepticism & Debunking, the Fox News* of PF...

Guinness:
Farthest Squirting of Milk from the Eye

http://www.rounds.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Farthest-squirting-milk-from-eye-600x346.jpg [Broken]

*I only say this, because I've just discovered that the National Geographic Channel is owned by Fox. "National Geographic" used to mean something special. A respected name, like Walter Cronkite, et al. sigh...

ps. Greg! Please don't get rid of S&D. Without TV, this is some of my best entertainment ever.

hmm... can you imagine if everyone canceled their cable?

 

[dlgoff]

LOL! His toungue was in the wrong place. Yeah right. Or maybe he moved his toes. Uh-huh.

My daughter could nullify him regardless of his tongues position.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1300/flyingsidekick.jpg [Broken]

 

[Reptillian]

My problem with telekinesis; Newton's 3rd law of motion...where is the equal but opposite force? Shouldn't the guy bending spoons with his mind have brain damage or something?

 

[zoobyshoe]

This demonstration of "telekinesis" is the best ever for amazing people:

7Ej97geNCsk What they don't dem...explain, and more amazing to people watching.

 

[Curious3141]

Do any of you remember PEAR - the ill-fated (and now deceased) Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research lab, that studied (among other things), "micropsychokinesis"? That includes stuff like seeing if the human mind could affect the output of a random binary generator.

 

[Snip3r]

Do any of you remember PEAR - the ill-fated (and now deceased) Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research lab, that studied (among other things), "micropsychokinesis"? That includes stuff like seeing if the human mind could affect the output of a random binary generator.

yes i was about to ask about that. does this mean anything? though i dint understand most of observations stated there
http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/pdfs/1997-correlations-random-binary-sequences-12-year-review.pdf

 

[Chronos]

It implies ghostly interference in lab studies ...

 

[Snip3r]

It implies ghostly interference in lab studies ...

does it imply an inclination towards telepathy cos i see Einstein quoting a physicist about that.any one?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

does it imply an inclination towards telepathy cos i see Einstein quoting a physicist about that.any one?

No. Accepting the methodology of the paper to be sound (which is never a given, when properly reading a paper you should read through the method to determine if it is correct) and accepting this to be true all it shows is that there is an unexplained statistical effect that should be investigated more. It is not evidence for the existence of anything on its own.

 

[Snip3r]

No. Accepting the methodology of the paper to be sound (which is never a given, when properly reading a paper you should read through the method to determine if it is correct) and accepting this to be true all it shows is that there is an unexplained statistical effect that should be investigated more. It is not evidence for the existence of anything on its own.

i agree to that. Btw any idea why this became defunct? and any where is the further investigation carried upon?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

i agree to that. Btw any idea why this became defunct?

You mean why did PEAR close? Short answer is that the department head considered their job done with the publication of the paper we're talking about.

and any where is the further investigation carried upon?

I looked up the paper on ncbi and found many papers citing it however I was suspicious when many of them seemed to be pro-ESP papers published in a small variety of journals including the Journal of Scientific Exploration, the Journal of Consciousness Studies and the Journal of Science and Healing. All of these are frindge journals with very questionable credibility so bear that in mind when you read further into this.

One paper that is quite interesting however is this meta-analysis on so-called Decision Augmentation Theory evidence that claims that the statistical significance seen in papers like the PEAR one are a result of publication bias.

 

[Evo]

This is a good article on PEAR.

According to John McCrone, "Operator 10," believed to be a PEAR staff member, "has been involved in 15% of the 14 million trials, yet contributed to a full half of the total excess hits" (McCrone 1994).

Perhaps the most disconcerting thing about PEAR is the fact that suggestions by critics that should have been considered were routinely ignored. Physicist Bob Park reports, for example, that he suggested to Jahn two types of experiments that would have bypassed the main criticisms aimed at PEAR. Why not do a double-blind experiment? asked Park. Have a second RNG determine the task of the operator and do not let this determination be known to the one recording the results. This could have eliminated the charge of experimenter bias. Another experiment, however, could have eliminated most criticism. Park suggested that PEAR have operators try to use their minds to move a "state-of-the-art microbalance" (Park 2008, 138-139). A microbalance can make precise measurements on the order of a millionth of a gram. One doesn't need to be clairvoyant to figure out why this suggestion was never heeded.

http://www.skepdic.com/pear.html