1. Sep 28, 2006

### basted

Does anybody know how to make a basket that when you score it adds points to a display?:uhh:

2. Sep 28, 2006

### Integral

Staff Emeritus
We can make a lot of assumptions about what you are talking about, or you could give us a little more in depth explanation.

In other words you need to define your problem a little better.

3. Sep 28, 2006

### Danger

I'm going to assume that you mean as in basketball. This is really tough, because the opportunity for false triggers is huge. With most types of sensors, a rim shot or someone hitting the basket would set them off. You most likely need something that's integrated with the bottom of the basket, and that would take an awful beating during a game. Even then, it would probably trigger if someone stuck his hand up through the net to knock the ball out before it scores.
There are only two things that I can think of that might work.
1) somehow get a magnet inside the ball and use a Hall-effect detector
2) find some elastic substance whose electrical resistance varies with how much it's stretched and ring the bottom of the net with a piece whose circumference is slightly smaller than the ball
I'll keep thinking on it, but that's all I've got for now.

4. Sep 28, 2006

### Averagesupernova

Multiple sensors that need to be activated in a specific sequence in order to add points to the display is what needs to be done. To the OP, just how much do you understand about electronics? What you are likely going to find for responses on this forum are suggestions about how to go about something. No one is going to draw up a circuit with a parts list and sources for the parts and tell you "THIS IS WHAT TO DO, I GUARANTEE IT WILL WORK!". In other words, you have to help yourself a bit. Up for it?

5. Sep 28, 2006

### Staff: Mentor

Good points by Danger. Probably the most workable solution would be an array of several passive RFID antennas inside the ball (glued on the inner wall or something), and sensors somehow integrated with the hoop to sense the ball above, inside, and then below the hoop in a short time sequence. You could use the RFID technology from the anti-shoplifting world, where the antennas are just the flat spirals.

6. Sep 28, 2006

### Danger

I say, Mr. Berkeman, good idea. It never occurred to me that those things could be so discriminitory. I always thought that they just radiated over a broad area. There still might be a bit of trouble telling the difference between an actual basket and a near-miss on a parallel path, but I guess that can be tuned.

7. Sep 29, 2006

### J77

Are we talking one ball at a time here?

8. Sep 29, 2006

### Danger

If the OP is talking about a regular basketball game, then only one ball is involved.

9. Sep 30, 2006

### Danger

I just had me a bit of a thought, here. If it's workable at all, though, it would probably be extremely complicated and rather expensive. A computer would likely be needed to manage it.
Anyhow, I was thinking along the line of threading the entire net with plastic 'nicked' fibre optics strands such as were used in the first VR gloves. The nicks in the cladding allow light leakage proportional to how much the strand is bent, and the controller measures that leakage. If every string of the net has a fibre bonded to it, with the nicks in specific locations, the computer could reconstruct the sequence and severity of the string movement and thus extrapolate what happened to the basket.
Maybe... :uhh:

10. Sep 30, 2006

### dlgoff

Optical pattern recognition.

11. Sep 30, 2006

### Danger

Now that's the best idea yet, as long as such can be done for a reasonable price. How much computing power and camera resolution is needed for that?

12. Sep 30, 2006

### dlgoff

Probably just a PC, monochrome TV camera, and a digitizer. Digitize the video and check for basketball in the net with... well some programming.

13. Sep 30, 2006

### Danger

Cool.

14. Oct 16, 2006

### Staff: Mentor

Hey guys, a few days ago I say a basketball training aid that does indeed use some kind of sensor to detect when the ball goes through the hoop. I didn't get a close-up view unfortunately, but my guess is that it uses a couple of ultrasonic sensors. The sensors were on a bracket that was placed over the back of the hoop, where it is attached to the backboard. It was part of this amazing training aid: The Gun by Shootaway:

http://shootaway.net/index.php?command=gun1

It's a big net funnel that gathers up shots whether they are good or miss, and gathers the balls at the bottom for the machine to shoot back out at you. This lets you get 3-4 balls going at a time, and keep taking the same practice shot over and over from the same spot to build muscle memory. The machine uses the sensors to keep your score of made shots and missed shots. You can aim the ball return thing at any angle you want so that you can practice shots from all around the court.

I saw these machines at a basketball clinic at a local high school, De La Salle in Concord, CA USA. They won the CA state championship last year, and after watching them practice with those Shootaway machines, I can see why! I wish they showed more about the goal sensors at their website....

15. Oct 16, 2006

### Danger

I see that the scoreboard is a \$400 option. Wonder if that includes the sensors, or if they come with the basic machine.
One thing about that, though, is that the machine you're talking about isn't intended to be used in a game environment. It might very well be too delicate for being beaten up.

Last edited: Oct 16, 2006
16. Oct 16, 2006

### dlgoff

"...does indeed use some kind of sensor to detect when the ball goes through the hoop."

Maybe it's only sensing missed shots and calculating the made shots.

17. Oct 16, 2006

### Staff: Mentor

Interesting, but from what I saw, it looked like the sensors were placed on either side of the hoop-to-backboard bracket, about 12" apart. There was a long handle that came down that they used to take the sensors down at the end of their practice. (I should have walked over and looked at it more closely right then, but didn't think about it until later. Maybe I'll e-mail the question to the Shootaway folks to see if they'll answer. It may be some proprietary thing for them, though.

EDIT -- fixed typo say-->saw.

Last edited: Oct 16, 2006
18. Oct 16, 2006

### dlgoff

It was hard to see from the pictures. Hope they will give you some info.

"I saw these machines at a basketball clinic at a local high school, De La Salle in Concord, CA USA. They won the CA state championship last year, and after watching them practice with those Shootaway machines, I can see why!"

Just curious. Do you have a high schooler kid?

Don

19. Oct 16, 2006

### Staff: Mentor

Hi Don, no, my son is in 7th grade. I went to a coach's clinic with these guys (excelinbasketball.com) two weekends ago because I know very little about basketball, and I'm an assistant coach on my son's team. I was super-impressed with these guys, and got to see their high school team practicing their weekend morning shots (1000 shots a day outside of their regular practices!). Watching them practice shooting with those machines was amazing. Those kids were hitting something like 80% or higher from various points around the 3-point line, shot after shot! There's a lot to be said for this technique of standing in one place and shooting repetitions without having to move at all.

So I signed my son up for the excelinbasketball Shooting Clinic over this last weekend, and he and our other coach's son spent 8 hours over the two weekend days in the clinic. Using the techniques and practice drills that they taught, my son (an average 7th grade CYO player) went from below 50% in his freethrow shooting to 70% by the end of the camp on Sunday. Great stuff! -Mike-

20. Oct 16, 2006

### dlgoff

That is amazing. By the time he's in H.S. think what he'll be able to do.

Keep up the good work dad.

Regards

P.S. my daughter is a 2nd degree black belt in tae kwon do. She's in the 10th grade.