# Seti@Home in finacle trouble

Curious3141
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I firmly believe SETI to be a waste of time. If an advanced civilisation wants to contact us, they will find a way. If a really advanced civilisation wants to completely hide their existence, they'll find a way.

SETI is like a geek's home physics project writ large. Money can be better spent on other legitimate scientific ventures (and ...gasp, humanitarian ventures).

JasonRox
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I totally agree with Curious.

Ivan Seeking
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SETI was begun when it was realized that to some reasonable limit, we could detect us - at that point it made sense to look for other worlds. Nobody is attempting to contact or hide from anyone. SETI seeks to definitively answer the question: Are we alone?

JasonRox
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Ivan Seeking said:
SETI was begun when it was realized that to some reasonable limit, we could detect us - at that point it made sense to look for other worlds. Nobody is attempting to contact or hide from anyone. SETI seeks to definitively answer the question: Are we alone?

I just don't think it is worthy enough to fund one million dollars a year into.

I really hope that someday within the next few years we detect an extraterrestrial signal....

Ivan Seeking
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It is fundamental research which is always difficult to justify, but often the source of the greatest break throughs. And beyond that, if we were to prove the existence of intelligent life elsewhere, it would change humanity forever. This would be one of the greatest, or perhaps even the greatest new truth of all time - a consciousness expanding event much like when we realized that the entire universe doesn't rotate about the earth, which were words to die for at the time.

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JasonRox
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Ivan Seeking said:
It is fundamental research which is always difficult to justify, but often the source of the greatest break throughs. And beyond that, if we were to prove the existence of intelligent life elsewhere, it would change humanity forever. This would be one of the greatest, or perhaps even the greatest new truth of all time - a consciousness expanding event much like when we realized that the entire universe doesn't rotate about the earth, which were words to die for at the time.

We should do it patiently though. If we can't afford it, we must wait until we can.

Sure people are rich and can just fork over the money, but people like Trump need to spend money on their wives. Do you have any idea how much it would cost Trump to sleep with HER!? :yuck:

Ivan Seeking
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The money spend is trivial compared to that spent on weapons, the space program, or even what kids spend on video games. For example, we could fund SETI for two thousand years for the price of one B2 bomber.
http://www.cdi.org/issues/aviation/B296.html [Broken]

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Tom Mattson
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finacle?

Blasted 10 char limit!

chroot
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
The money is actually pretty trivial compared to many other scientific ventures. Also, consider that SETI runs mostly in "piggyback" mode. Scientists use radio telescopes to do "conventional" radio astronomy, and SETI analyzes the continuous flow of data as the telescopes move around the sky. It's a "gimmie." We might as well do it, even though everyone agrees it's probably not going to find anything.

Besides, think of all the advances that have been made in everything from distributed computation, detection devices (receivers, software radio, etc.), and so on as a result of SETI. As Ivan has said, pure research is always a gamble, but without funding equally "pointless" pure research, 99% of the technological advances of the last hundred years wouldn't have happened.

- Warren

Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
chroot said:
It's a "gimmie." We might as well do it, even though everyone agrees it's probably not going to find anything.

Not quite everyone. Recently, Seth Shostak predicted contact within I think twenty years. Apparently the VLA being built offers significant advantages over what is used now. But I'm not sure if SETI@Home applies to this effort.

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Ivan Seeking said:
It is fundamental research which is always difficult to justify, but often the source of the greatest break throughs. And beyond that, if we were to prove the existence of intelligent life elsewhere, it would change humanity forever. This would be one of the greatest, or perhaps even the greatest new truth of all time - a consciousness expanding event much like when we realized that the entire universe doesn't rotate about the earth, which were words to die for at the time.

well said.

Easily worth the little money it costs.

$750k. Is that for the whole SETI program or just the @home data analysis? You could maybe argue about where it fits within our scientific priorities, but I'll never understand the argument of science spending versus other domestic priorities. Research unquestionably gets more "bang for your buck" socially and economically that just about any other budget item. NIH$27bn, NASA $15bn, NSF$5bn, DARPA $2bn adds up to maybe$50-60 billion out of a \$2.5 trillion budget.

Curious3141 said:
I firmly believe SETI to be a waste of time. If an advanced civilisation wants to contact us, they will find a way. If a really advanced civilisation wants to completely hide their existence, they'll find a way.

SETI is like a geek's home physics project writ large. Money can be better spent on other legitimate scientific ventures (and ...gasp, humanitarian ventures).
How do you know if an advance civiltion think it's waste of time to come here?I think it would be better for use to make contact with them first instead of them making contact with us.
Anyway how do you know if we don't discover somthing(non-ET) importent.Alot of things in secience where discoverd on accedient while looking for somthing that doesn't exist.

I firmly believe SETI to be a waste of time. If an advanced civilisation wants to contact us, they will find a way. If a really advanced civilisation wants to completely hide their existence, they'll find a way.

"So if somebody wants to find us let'm do it" - sounds pretty egoistic and fully indifferent, don't you find??
I think a civilization which doesn't make just a bit of effort to search for anybody of its own kind simply does not deserve to be called "advanced"!
Why? Because so it has already lost its purpose, which is to discover its own nature, try to answer the "simple" question - "Who are we???"
Knowing one's own core is for humans as vital and fundamental as water and breathing. Though it's another level - it has to do with human consciousness and psyche. And in fact our life and progress depends on these most of all!
So in SETI's case even a timid attempt counts.

We should do it patiently though. If we can't afford it, we must wait until we can.

We will never be able in these terms!
What people do is exactly what you said - they wait until their "material appetite" is gone. But they fully forget that human greediness and a real obsession to posess, more and more, are just insatiable! Values are nowadays not in the right place! They moved to trigger obsessive, wrong capitalism.
I find it a very complex problem. But there has to be done something in our society...immediately!!! And there is no time to wait because the situation is just worsening!!!
Here SETI can also come into play and show what the true picture really is!

JasonRox
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Gold Member
symplectic_manifold said:
"So if somebody wants to find us let'm do it" - sounds pretty egoistic and fully indifferent, don't you find??
I think a civilization which doesn't make just a bit of effort to search for anybody of its own kind simply does not deserve to be called "advanced"!
Why? Because so it has already lost its purpose, which is to discover its own nature, try to answer the "simple" question - "Who are we???"
Knowing one's own core is for humans as vital and fundamental as water and breathing. Though it's another level - it has to do with human consciousness and psyche. And in fact our life and progress depends on these most of all!
So in SETI's case even a timid attempt counts.

We will never be able in these terms!
What people do is exactly what you said - they wait until their "material appetite" is gone. But they fully forget that human greediness and a real obsession to posess, more and more, are just insatiable! Values are nowadays not in the right place! They moved to trigger obsessive, wrong capitalism.
I find it a very complex problem. But there has to be done something in our society...immediately!!! And there is no time to wait because the situation is just worsening!!!
Here SETI can also come into play and show what the true picture really is!

I believe SETI is in the US, and no offense, but I don't think the US has much money.

The US has enough money but it's in the wrong hands, like in any other country. But it's not the country that matters most. It's the problem of the whole World! WE're off the track, Guys!

As I said the problem is difficult. SETI must obey the "jungle law" - the strongest survives. But it's a pity that the "jungle" rots and almost absolutely ignores that fact! So unfortunately, a different world cannot be built by indifferent people!

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JasonRox
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symplectic_manifold said:
The US has enough money but it's in the wrong hands, like in any other country. But it's not the country that matters most. It's the problem of the whole World! WE're off the track, Guys!

As I said the problem is difficult. SETI must obey the "jungle law" - the strongest survives. But it's a pity that the "jungle" rots and almost absolutely ignores that fact! So unfortunately, a different world cannot be built by indifferent people!

Look I know what you're talking about, but seriously the money isn't there.

Maybe it is. I don't know.

DaveC426913
Gold Member
...I think it would be better for use to make contact with them first instead of them making contact with us...
Again, one wonders why people don't read up on this stuff first...

1] It is WAY cheaper and easier to listen than to speak.

2] Earth radiates a lot of radio noise inadvertantly. Our radio bubble is now 100ly in diameter and expanding (and we've only been at it for 50 years).

It is reasonable to assume any advanced civilization will do so - it's virtually impossible not to, unless they're actively xenophobic.

Listening for other civilizations is about picking up their inadvertant noise, not necessarily a message.