Sexism in society

  • Thread starter Ripley
  • Start date
  • #1
14
1
I was sent a link to this short French film earlier today, although it doesn't go into all the details of issues I have faced in the past I found it interesting.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-french-film-showing-men-what-being-a-woman-feels-like-kinda?g=2&c=reccon1


Most of the sexism I encounter is rather casual, ie girls don't study maths/physics or don't like sci-fi. Being single I have often met men how have asked me out on dates and then lauched into a speech about how they'll look after me!
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
223
10
I couldn't get a job some years ago due to sexism - there were 2 candidates left for a spot and the girl got it, because she had dressed quite challengingly that day. Open decollete, heavy make up..you get the picture. It was a spot for a car workshop reception desk (the funniest bit about it is she didn't know much about cars and got a job doing something that requires quite a bit of general knowledge about cars and mechanics ). Other than that, those who want sexism to be a big deal, let them have it - I personally don't care.
 
  • #3
WannabeNewton
Science Advisor
5,800
532
My school is filled with extremist feminists. They scare the living hell out of me, not to mention their blatant hypocrisy takes away all of their credibility. The extremist feminists give the moderate, sensible ones a really bad name-you know, the class of feminists who actually get things done. Upworthy is filled with the former, not the latter.
 
  • #4
14
1
I can't say I've heard of upworthy before today and I haven't looked at anything else on the site.

I have friends who believe in the fallacy of it's us against them. They are so wrapped up in the hatred they've acquired from feeling discriminated against that they fail to see that sexism against men and woman are not mutually exclusive. The bigger picture is far more complicated than any film or post could ever depict. Role models for both genders in the media are detrimental for children's self-esteem and morals. It seems that young people are encouraged to become caricatures; boys being athletic, arrogant, emotionally inept and girls being attractive, dumb and submissive. I have helped in a local school and girls at the age of 7 are shaving their legs and copying rihannas dance moves from some disgusting music video.

Positive discrimination undermines everything I believe in. I have toyed with the idea of joining the military after uni and wasn't impressed that the fitness test requirements are lower for women. I personally will be meeting the male targets if i do decide on that career path!
 
  • #5
WannabeNewton
Science Advisor
5,800
532
I can't say I've heard of upworthy before today and I haven't looked at anything else on the site.
I would avoid using it as with anything that is extremist. I consider myself a liberal but upworthy's over the top "liberalism" makes me cringe.

It seems that young people are encouraged to become caricatures; boys being athletic, arrogant, emotionally inept and girls being attractive, dumb and submissive.
Through the entertainment industry such encouragement has certainly been disseminated but I can't say I've ever come across encouragement of this kind outside of the entertainment medium. That's not to say such encouragement doesn't exist in every day life but it probably exists in a societal sphere which I do not belong to. No guy I know cares even the slightest about athleticism to the point of self-definition and no girl I know tries to be "dumb and submissive" nor does anyone force them to be.

Positive discrimination undermines everything I believe in.
And it is but one facet of the disgusting levels of political correctness forced down the throats of modern American society that pisses me off-if only George Carlin were alive today.
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #6
wukunlin
Gold Member
415
104
In Auckland uni, girls who study postgraduate physics are not seen as unusual. The gender ratio is still disproportionate though...
 
  • #7
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
20,990
4,809
Positive discrimination undermines everything I believe in. I have toyed with the idea of joining the military after uni and wasn't impressed that the fitness test requirements are lower for women. I personally will be meeting the male targets if i do decide on that career path!
May I ask why you have an issue with the physical fitness standards being different between men and women?
 
  • #8
russ_watters
Mentor
19,861
6,282
May I ask why you have an issue with the physical fitness standards being different between men and women?
The US Marine Corps is having significant problems with this issue:
More than half of female Marines in boot camp can't do three pull-ups, the minimum standard that was supposed to take effect with the new year, prompting the Marine Corps to delay the requirement, part of the process of equalizing physical standards to integrate women into combat jobs.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ale-fitness-plan-after-half-fail-pullup-test/
 
  • #9
689
142
Almost every characteristic of a person has some kind of associated form of discrimination these days, quite alarming really.
People are not the same, and there shouldn't be any offense in pointing this out. People of different races are different and so are men and women.
 
  • #10
14
1
May I ask why you have an issue with the physical fitness standards being different between men and women?
Ultimately both genders will be doing the same job and if called in to combat they will be carrying the same weight, using the same rifles and covering the same distances. The fitness tests should reflect this.
 
  • #11
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
20,990
4,809
Ultimately both genders will be doing the same job and if called in to combat they will be carrying the same weight, using the same rifles and covering the same distances. The fitness tests should reflect this.
I agree that both men and women should be physically capable of doing their job. But, being in the Air Force for 12 years now, I can tell you that a general fitness test that is applied to everyone in their branch of service has no reason to be the same for both men and women. A woman in finance or vehicle maintenance has no reason to be held to the same standards as men when her job doesn't require her to be physically fit. I cringe when I think about how many women would fail their PT test if it were to be upped to what I have to do.
 
  • #12
StatGuy2000
Education Advisor
1,800
906
I agree that both men and women should be physically capable of doing their job. But, being in the Air Force for 12 years now, I can tell you that a general fitness test that is applied to everyone in their branch of service has no reason to be the same for both men and women. A woman in finance or vehicle maintenance has no reason to be held to the same standards as men when her job doesn't require her to be physically fit. I cringe when I think about how many women would fail their PT test if it were to be upped to what I have to do.
Perhaps this shows my ignorance about the US military, but shouldn't a fitness test be based on what specific activities or roles/jobs within the military that the individual (male or female) be engaged in? After all, I would presume that a front-line soldier in the US Army or a Marine Special Forces officer will have a very different set of fitness requirements compared to an engineer working in the US Navy or Air Force.

(As an aside, there seems to be this underlying assumption that women are less physically fit than men, which is very far from the case).
 
  • #13
Bandersnatch
Science Advisor
2,935
1,857
(As an aside, there seems to be this underlying assumption that women are less physically fit than men, which is very far from the case).
Are you saying there's no strength-related sexual dimorphism in humans?
 
  • #14
StatGuy2000
Education Advisor
1,800
906
Are you saying there's no strength-related sexual dimorphism in humans?
That's not what I'm saying at all -- there is evidence of strength-related and size-related sexual dimorphism in humans. What I am questioning is the (unspoken) assumption that women are less physically fit than men, and therefore may be less likely to succeed in the military.

For example, russ_waters pulls a comment from Fox News stating that more than half of female Marines in boot camp cannot do 3 pull-ups. What is not stated is how many of the male Marines in boot camp cannot do 3 pull-ups. So I'm curious if somehow many of those in boot camp are simply not meeting the basic physical requirements.

Also, there are many different types of combat roles in the various branches of the US military, probably with different requirements for physical fitness in each of them. Does one-size-fits-all fitness tests really measure how physically ready the candidates are in each of those roles?
 
  • #15
14
1
I agree that both men and women should be physically capable of doing their job. But, being in the Air Force for 12 years now, I can tell you that a general fitness test that is applied to everyone in their branch of service has no reason to be the same for both men and women. A woman in finance or vehicle maintenance has no reason to be held to the same standards as men when her job doesn't require her to be physically fit. I cringe when I think about how many women would fail their PT test if it were to be upped to what I have to do.
I am currently working on an raf base as a civilian. Men and women in the same trade still have different fitness level requirements and surely if you are first and foremost a soldier then you need to be fit enough to be called upon at any given time? From what I've witnessed the raf are far too lenient with any employee (regardless of gender) who reguarly fails fitness tests but that is off topic.
 
  • #16
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
20,990
4,809
Perhaps this shows my ignorance about the US military, but shouldn't a fitness test be based on what specific activities or roles/jobs within the military that the individual (male or female) be engaged in? After all, I would presume that a front-line soldier in the US Army or a Marine Special Forces officer will have a very different set of fitness requirements compared to an engineer working in the US Navy or Air Force.
The Air Force physical fitness requirements apply to nearly everyone, no matter the career field. The only exceptions are jobs like special forces or fighter pilots, who must meet a higher/different fitness standard than the rest of us. So for about 99% of the Air Force the fitness requirements are identical. (Other than gender differences)

(As an aside, there seems to be this underlying assumption that women are less physically fit than men, which is very far from the case).
It's not that they are less physically fit, it's that they have less physical strength on average, especially in the upper body, along with some other differences such as different center of mass, differently shaped hips, less muscle mass per body weight, etc.

Also, there are many different types of combat roles in the various branches of the US military, probably with different requirements for physical fitness in each of them. Does one-size-fits-all fitness tests really measure how physically ready the candidates are in each of those roles?
No, but most specialized combat units have different requirements than other units, and these requirements are typically more stringent.

I am currently working on an raf base as a civilian. Men and women in the same trade still have different fitness level requirements and surely if you are first and foremost a soldier then you need to be fit enough to be called upon at any given time?

I'm a maintainer in the Air Force. There are certain physical requirements, such as the ability to lift 40 pounds above your head, that everyone must meet. But that isn't a measure of fitness. It's just a physical requirement. Women may be held to different physical standards than Men, but in my job, and in the majority of jobs in the AF, that level of fitness isn't even necessary to perform your job adequately.

I certainly agree that some sort of standards for PT need to be in place, as exercise is generally healthy when done correctly, but I see no reason for women to have the same standards as men when it would drastically increase the amount of stress people already experience in regards to the PT test. The pro's don't outweigh the con's in my opinion.
 
  • #17
Evo
Mentor
23,153
2,796
Wouldn't push ups be be more geared toward men? Not only is it a fact that women have less upper body strength, but if you have large breasts, not only is it like having weights strapped to your chest, it throws you off.

Sorry, this is hijacking the thread.

Back to the thread topic.
 
Last edited:
  • #18
131
40
Male Marines only have to be able to do three pull-ups? Now our enemies just need to build four walls in a row and we're screwed!

The thread was hijacked right away (in a very predictable way, too), so I don't feel too bad.
 
  • #19
726
27
This video is stupid. I watched the first 2 minutes. Mainly, all they do is reverse social norms on the head so it looks weird (as well pretend 60's era male-sexism is common today). So their point is social norms shouldn't exist? :rolleyes: sigh

It seems to me allot of these modern feminists are championing for equality in every part of society. Meaning; a 50-50 distribution in jobs and education, removal of any form of sex roles and that all men and women should act like their sex is irrelevant. Basically that masculinity and femininity are evils created by a male-dominated society to oppress women.

Really, people are forgetting what feminism really is about; equal respect and free choice to live as one likes. It's not about forcing "equality" down everybody's throats. Though don't get me wrong, I'm all for exposing sexism and double standards in the work-place/education and so on.

Wouldn't push ups be be more geared toward men? Not only is it a fact that women have less upper body strength, but if you have large breasts, not only is it like having weights strapped to your chest, it throws you off.
I think the fact that an average women weigh 1/3 less than an average male more than compensates. Besides, a soldier needs to be able to climb obstacles, sprint for cover and so on regardless of how unbalancing her breats are.
Infantrists must be able to carry 20kg+ of equipment for days in all manners of terrain, while remaining in combat-ready shape. For this the vast majority of women simply do not have the required physique, and thus have no place on the front lines.
 
  • #20
Evo
Mentor
23,153
2,796
For this the vast majority of women simply do not have the required physique, and thus have no place on the front lines.
There are physical differences and it's just ridiculous for a woman to expect to be the same as a man. It's not discrimination, that's just the way it is.
 
  • #21
StatGuy2000
Education Advisor
1,800
906
At the risk of hijacking this thread even further, I want to put this question out there. Are there any statistics on the gender breakdown of the different branches of the US armed forces (Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Coast Guard)? And are there statistics describing the gender breakdown in the type of roles they engage in within each of the branches of the armed forces (outside of front line combat)?
 
  • #22
223
10
When I served time there was a girl in our division, in espionage. Happened to talk to her about it and she said she loves it and loves the load (drill exercises, physical exercises, field exercises) - she is somewhat of a military fanatic, but still, she was cut no slack because she was a woman and neither did she ask for any.
 
  • #23
Monique
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
4,149
64
There are physical differences and it's just ridiculous for a woman to expect to be the same as a man. It's not discrimination, that's just the way it is.
If certain strength/endurance is needed for a job, men and women should be treated equally. Women are much better represented in the marine compared to land forces, this is logical.
 
  • #24
131
40
If certain strength/endurance is needed for a job, men and women should be treated equally.
Isn't that what's happening? That Fox link, which is shockingly rational compared to some other posts, seems to imply that women who can't fulfil the physical requirements won't be allowed in combat. It also says they can choose other tests to pass their physicals, so I assume that just passing the physical doesn't allow them in combat; the details aren't clear to me.

This thread is just nonsense at this point, but it is fun to go down the checklist of canned responses in this type of thread (I count at least five, some by multiple people). What are we even talking about? What is being crammed/forced down my throat besides that women would like to be treated equally? and yes, in every part of society? How is that extremist outside of a ridiculously distorted strawman argument? (oh god, I even know the answers I might get if anyone bothers, and they're just more of the same distortions) It's just that that makes about the 241st thing being crammed down there and I just don't know if it can take any more!
 
  • #25
Evo
Mentor
23,153
2,796
If certain strength/endurance is needed for a job, men and women should be treated equally. Women are much better represented in the marine compared to land forces, this is logical.
Yes, they are allowed if they can meet the requirements.

Earlier this year, the Pentagon lifted the ban on women serving in U.S. combat units – including elite special-operations units like the Navy’s SEALs – if they can clear the physical and mental hurdles. While official Washington has saluted and moved on to other matters, there remains a rumble of opposition, especially evident when chatting with soldiers and Marines. Some argue that the existing standards – which already have kept several women from passing the Marines’ grueling infantry officers course – will basically act as a bar to women in the more demanding kinds of combat.
http://nation.time.com/2013/07/25/the-cowardly-push-to-get-women-into-combat/

The article is complaining that the bar might be lowered for women. I just really wanted to link the paragraph I quoted, not the complaints.
 

Related Threads on Sexism in society

  • Last Post
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
8K
  • Last Post
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
27
Views
12K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
47
Views
7K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
11K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
  • Poll
  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
3K
Top