Shooting at the Holocaust Museum

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  • #26
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There is only a correlation in the first statement, not a causation. Atheism, for instance, cannot by definition imply mass murder, since it is the absence of a particular belief. On the contrary, Christianity is an ideology and can thus inspire mass murder. It is like arguing that Stalin was not bald, therefore having hair causes genocide and, indeed, all genocidal dictators have had hair somewhere on their body.

Furthermore, Russia was hardly a socialist country. It was a totalitarian country that practiced the dictatorship of the proletariat. They where trying to reach the no-state, no-class, no-private property ideal of communism by using applied fascism.
As you like....
 
  • #27
chemisttree
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It is now being reported that a list of targets has been found associated with the shooter. The list includes monuments, The Washington Post and ... Fox News!

What a riot! You Fox News Haters are way off base...
 
  • #28
kyleb
So you were simply correcting Drankin on his use of the term "right wing"?
Or rather his contest against LowlyPion's use of the term, and I really wasn't looking to get into speculation of where the murderer got his news, but no need for an apology, it's all good. Positions such as anti-choice, anti-welfare, and pro-gun are a few examples of greater commonality between the far right and the rest of the right wing, and if the guy did watch cable news at all then it would have surely been fox Fox. Furthermore, if he did watch much Fox, then they surely contributed to working him up over issues like the aforementioned ones.
I think the implied connection is obivious.
Do you consider calling the ELF a far-left terrorist group a slight at Democrats? I consider it a statement of fact.
The basic crticism of Fox news that has been a major theme on this forum for months is that Fox news is not just biased, but is biased toward/is a mouthpiece for the right wing of the republican party.
Seems reasonable to me, do you care to present an argument to the contrary?
LP (and others) have directly inserted this incident into that theme.

It was bad enough to blame Fox News for the murder of the abortion doctor (crimes against abortion doctors also predate Fox News and are not on the rise), but at least with that, Fox was directly discussing the issue.
What about Fox having repeatedly referring to Dr. Tiller as a murderer, do you see anything bad about that? It seems akin to shouting fire in a crowded theater to me.
Here, I think they will be hard pressed to find much, if any of the same direct connection. We've passed the absurd and crossed into the surreal.
While I highly doubt anyone on Fox said anything to directly encourage the murderer's Judophobia, LowlyPeon's arguments are hardly absurd. After all, to such bigots Fox's incessant branding of Obama as a communist is as good as calling him a lackey for "the Jews".
 
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  • #29
kyleb
It is now being reported that a list of targets has been found associated with the shooter.
Reported where? I tried searching Google news but didn't find anything of the sort.
 
  • #30
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While I see no reason to directly blame Fox for this shooting, I have, in the past, (it's been a couple years since I've had cable) come across some popular Fox commentators (can't recall who, but if I had to guess, I'd say O'reilly and Hannity) openly supporting a hegemony exercised by White Christians in the US (and I wouldn't be the least surprised if Pat Buchanan had too). Anyway, I think that comes pretty close to supporting white supremacism, in principle. It may be difficult to dig up examples, but if you disagree with my observation, I'll give it a try.
I don't see a reference here. I'd like to see a reference to this, particularly the "white" part.
 
  • #31
Gokul43201
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I don't see a reference here. I'd like to see a reference to this, particularly the "white" part.
I said I'd try to find one if someone asked for it. You've asked so I'll look, maybe tonight, after work.

PS: If someone else already has a reference, please share; you will save me a bunch of time.
 
  • #32
kyleb
A few seconds on Google video search turned this up:

 
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  • #33
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A Neo NAZI isn't necessarily a christian. Hitlers NAZI party wasn't based on christianity. In fact the NAZI's had some occult religion and believed in human sacrifice and what not.

You really think that someone who wants to kill off most the world is going to get all upset about abortion? Neo Nazis just hate people who aren't white.

Actually, Nazis were more like far left. They went so far with things like abortion, that they decided to kill people with genetic defects, down syndrome etc. In fact their whole eugenics program, can be considered hard left.
 
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  • #34
chemisttree
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Reported where? I tried searching Google news but didn't find anything of the sort.
...Law enforcement sources tell FOX 5 that during a search of a car that is believed to belong 88-year-old James von Brunn , investigators found a notebook with information about six to nine locations in the D.C. area, including the National Holocaust Museum. Other locations on the list included the U.S. Capitol, the White House, the Washington Post, and a FOX News location.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/061009_2_shot_inside_dc_holocaust_museum

Yeah, it was Fox that got him all worked up... Riiight.
 
  • #36
kyleb
A Neo NAZI isn't necessarily a christian.
Of couse not, but I am curious what spured this comment, as I haven't seen anyone else mention Christianity here. Regardless, while I could hardly argue that Nazi ideology is founded in the teachings of Jesus, http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/Adolf_Hitler_Nazi_Germany_Christian_Nationalism_AntiSemitism.htm" [Broken]. Of course not all Nazis considered themselves Christians, and some Nazis were infatuated in the occult too, but then many people who claim to be Christians dabble in that. Also, while pro-choice is a platform of the left, pro-eugenics is all the way off on the other end of the scale.
 
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  • #38
LowlyPion
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It is now being reported that a list of targets has been found associated with the shooter. The list includes monuments, The Washington Post and ... Fox News!

What a riot! You Fox News Haters are way off base...
Not sure who here hates Fox News. My opinion is that they are irresponsible in their biased presentation of their conservative propaganda. To hate Fox News, is to say hate sharks. They are what they are. In Fox's case they are merely hypocrites prancing about like they are "fair and balanced". I think it's humorous more than I would feel any personal hatred towards them.

But, as to the general point then, I guess I was right. He does apparently indeed watch Fox News, ... else they wouldn't be mentioned among his papers now would they. I thought his being a Mensa was enough of a clue for me, but that does seem to confirm that he did indeed watch Roger Ailes right wing media creation.

Oh, and btw, the FBI doesn't characterize it as a "list". Their particulars were written down among papers found in his car and the agent was careful to reiterate that there is no list per se in the sense that there was a list of targets.
 
  • #39
drankin
Not sure who here hates Fox News. My opinion is that they are irresponsible in their biased presentation of their conservative propaganda. To hate Fox News, is to say hate sharks. They are what they are. In Fox's case they are merely hypocrites prancing about like they are "fair and balanced". I think it's humorous more than I would feel any personal hatred towards them.

But, as to the general point then, I guess I was right. He does apparently indeed watch Fox News, ... else they wouldn't be mentioned among his papers now would they. I thought his being a Mensa was enough of a clue for me, but that does seem to confirm that he did indeed watch Roger Ailes right wing media creation.

Oh, and btw, the FBI doesn't characterize it as a "list". Their particulars were written down among papers found in his car and the agent was careful to reiterate that there is no list per se in the sense that there was a list of targets.
I was just thinking about how a wacko like this might operate. How many times in criminal history has a killer carried a check list of his victims? Like, he might forget someone if he doesn't write their name down. Then again, the guy was no youngster. Your memory gets sketchy as you age. :uhh:
 
  • #40
russ_watters
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