Understanding arg(z1/z2) = arg(z1z2) with Conjugate z2

  • Thread starter Jbreezy
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In summary: Therefore arg(z1/z2)=arg(z1z2).In summary, arg(z1/z2) = arg(z1z2) because dividing by the conjugate of z2 has no effect on the argument and therefore it remains the same as when multiplying z1 by z2. This is true for any z1 and z2, represented in polar form as re^(iθ), and can be shown by manipulating the expressions in terms of their arguments.
  • #1
Jbreezy
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Homework Statement



How is arg(z1/z2) = arg(z1z2) ?Where the bold z2 represents the conjugate.

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution

 
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  • #2
Jbreezy said:

Homework Statement



How is arg(z1/z2) = arg(z1z2) ?Where the bold z2 represents the conjugate.

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution


What have you tried?

Where are you stuck ?
 
  • #3
Yeah I tried. I just took an example say z1= 2+2i and z2= 3+4i

So arg (z1/z2) = .56-.08i
now arg(z1z2) = 14-2i
I don't get how this person wrote that arg(z1/z2) = arg(z1z2)
 
  • #4
Jbreezy said:
Yeah I tried. I just took an example say z1= 2+2i and z2= 3+4i

So arg (z1/z2) = .56-.08i
now arg(z1z2) = 14-2i
I don't get how this person wrote that arg(z1/z2) = arg(z1z2)

Actually:

arg (z1/z2) = arg(.56-.08i)

and

arg(z1z2) = arg(14-2i) .

Are not those the same; arg(.56-.08i) and arg(14-2i) ?
 
  • #5
Opps. Thanks
 
  • #6
So you are happy that your particular example satisfies the identity [itex]arg(z_1/z_2)=arg(z_1 \bar{z_2})[/itex], but do you understand why it is an identity - ie it is satisfied by any [itex]z_1[/itex] and [itex]z_2[/itex] (with [itex]z_1,z_2 \neq 0[/itex])?

If not, think about how you can represent each of the following:
[tex]arg(z_1/z_2)[/tex][tex]arg(z_1 z_2)[/tex][tex]arg(\bar{z_2})[/tex] in terms of [itex]arg(z_1)[/itex] and [itex]arg(z_2)[/itex].
 
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  • #7
Of course, that just verifies it for those two particular values in that example. What happens if you write for general ##z_1## and ##z_2## in polar form and try it?
 
  • #8
oay said:
So you are happy that your particular example satisfies the identity [itex]arg(z_1/z_2)=arg(z_1 \bar{z_2})[/itex], but do you understand why it is an identity - ie it is satisfied by any [itex]z_1[/itex] and [itex]z_2[/itex] (with [itex]z_1,z_2 \neq 0[/itex])?

If not, think about how you can represent each of the following:
[tex]arg(z_1/z_2)[/tex][tex]arg(z_1 z_2)[/tex][tex]arg(\bar{z_2})[/tex] in terms of [itex]arg(z_1)[/itex] and [itex]arg(z_2)[/itex].


[tex]arg(z_1/z_2)= arg(z1)-arg(z2)[/tex]
[tex]arg(z_1 z_2)= arg(z1) +arg(z2)[/tex]
[tex]arg(\bar{z_2})= -arg(z2)[/tex]but you said in terms of ##arg(z1) ##and ## arg(z2)##
So I don;t know about the last one.

Of course, that just verifies it for those two particular values in that example. What happens if you write for general z1 and z2 in polar form and try it?

What do you mean?
 
  • #9
LCKurtz said:
Of course, that just verifies it for those two particular values in that example. What happens if you write for general ##z_1## and ##z_2## in polar form and try it?

What do you mean?

##z = re^{i\theta}## form.
 
  • #10
Jbreezy said:
[tex]arg(z_1/z_2)= arg(z1)-arg(z2)[/tex]
[tex]arg(z_1 z_2)= arg(z1) +arg(z2)[/tex]
[tex]arg(\bar{z_2})= -arg(z2)[/tex]but you said in terms of ##arg(z1) ##and ## arg(z2)##
So I don;t know about the last one.
That's right, you've answered all three correctly.

So,
[tex]arg(z_1/z_2)=arg(z_1)-arg(z_2)[/tex][tex]=arg(z_1)+arg(\bar{z_2})[/tex]
[tex]=arg(z_1 \bar{z_2})[/tex]
 
  • #11
oay said:
That's right, you've answered all three correctly.

But didn't he say he didn't understand the third one?
 
  • #12
LCKurtz said:
But didn't he say he didn't understand the third one?
I took that to mean that he/she was unsure about it simply because I'd said "in terms of [itex]arg(z_1)[/itex] and [itex]arg(z_2)[/itex]" and only one of these terms was necessary. A problem of the wording really, rather than not understanding the answer, IMO.

EDIT: @Jbreezy When asked to represent an expression "in terms of A, B and C" (for example), you are not obliged to use all of A, B and C in your answer.
 
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  • #13
LCKurtz said:
##z = re^{i\theta}## form.

I don't know this form. You represent a complex number like a + ib like this? what?
 
  • #14
Jbreezy said:
I don't know this form. You represent a complex number like a + ib like this? what?
Any complex number can be represented this way.

[itex]r[/itex] represents the modulus (ie [itex]\sqrt{a^2+b^2}[/itex]) and [itex]\theta[/itex] represents the argument.
 
  • #15
Jbreezy said:
I don't know this form. You represent a complex number like a + ib like this? what?

It's equivalent to
[tex]z=r \left(\cos(\theta)+i\sin(\theta)\right)=re^{i\theta}[/tex]
 
  • #16
Yeah I will answer this question when I get to that part in my text.Thx
 
  • #17
Multiply z1/z2 by z2/z2 .

This gives (z1z2)/(z2z2) .

However, (z2z2) is a purely real number, so dividing by (z2z2) has no effect on the argument.
 

1. How does conjugating z2 affect the argument of z1/z2?

Conjugating z2 does not affect the argument of z1/z2. The argument of a complex number is determined by its angle with the positive real axis, and conjugation only changes the sign of the imaginary part, not the angle.

2. Why is the argument of z1/z2 equal to the argument of z1z2 when z2 is conjugated?

This is because the argument of a product is the sum of the arguments of the factors. When z2 is conjugated, its argument changes by 180 degrees, but the argument of z1 remains the same. Therefore, the argument of z1z2 will be equal to the argument of z1 plus 180 degrees, which is the same as the argument of z1/z2.

3. Can the argument of z1/z2 be equal to the argument of z1z2 even if z2 is not conjugated?

Yes, this can happen if the argument of z2 is already 180 degrees. In this case, conjugating z2 would not change the argument, so the argument of z1/z2 and z1z2 would be equal without conjugation.

4. How does this property of complex numbers affect mathematical operations involving them?

This property allows us to easily calculate the argument of a quotient by conjugating the denominator. It is also useful in simplifying complex expressions involving arguments, as we can replace the original expression with one that is easier to work with.

5. Are there any other similar properties of complex numbers?

Yes, there are several other properties of complex numbers that involve conjugation, such as the fact that the modulus of a conjugate is equal to the modulus of the original number, and the fact that the product of a complex number and its conjugate is always a real number.

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