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Should Prisons be turned into Schools, Factories, >

  1. Change Into Schools and Hospitals

    4 vote(s)
  2. Change Into Factories

    8 vote(s)
  3. Change Into Religious and Humanitarian Centres

    0 vote(s)
  4. Leave them unchanged

    3 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Sep 30, 2004 #1
    Should Prisons be turned into Schools, Factories,......>

    It is more than well overdue for the PRISON to change its PURPOSE and DIRECTION. What should that be? Should prisons the world over be turned into Schools, universities, factories, hospitals, etc.? Why?
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 30, 2004 #2


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    I don't understand the question - do you mean that the prisoners should be made to work in factories or got to school or do you mean the prisons should be turned into regular schools/factories for regular people? If its the former, some are already made to work in factories, but how would you make prisoners run a hospital or go to school?
  4. Sep 30, 2004 #3


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    I don't quite understand either. Commit a crime and get a free university education? Or convert the prison building into something else? If something else, where do you plan to put the prisoners?
  5. Sep 30, 2004 #4
    Whatever you do don't turn it into something religious or Humanitarian, thats like.. a violation of human rights. Physically imposing your views on other people. Not right.
  6. Oct 1, 2004 #5
    Well, I mean that judges should be able to say something like:

    "I sentence you to life in education!"

    "Due to the magnitude of your crime, you must train to be a carpenter!

    "The nature of your crime is such that you must work at factory x for five years"

    and so on. Just a thought.
  7. Oct 1, 2004 #6
    The nature of any crime is such that the offender must return to the victim, or to the family of the victim, or to the offended community at large, a proportion of what is taken, while at the same time maintaining the fundamental principle of EQUITY.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2004
  8. Oct 1, 2004 #7
    Thanks for the amusement......give at least a guess of what I mean!
  9. Oct 1, 2004 #8
    But arguments elsewhere suggest that this is, at least in principle, not ruled out. Why not?
  10. Oct 1, 2004 #9
    There is an interesting problem raised here. Training a criminal to do something constructive better prepares them to reenter society. However, is it fair to society to have to support this type of institution? Perhaps if the educational or vocational opportunity were treated as a loan to be repayed over time?

    Then we have another problem. Is a job doing factory labor or any kind of real work really going to overcome the lure of "easy" money?

    I think cases would need to be considered individually.
  11. Oct 1, 2004 #10
    I don't see how it could do any less than equal amount of time in New York Prison. As it is 80% of people sentenced to prison will be back within x months of release. Isn't one of the biggest causes of Crime lack of Education and Unemployment, lets treat the source!
  12. Oct 1, 2004 #11


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    I don't really like the status quo, but the alternatives offered in this poll don't seem like good alternatives to me. If anything, it seems like a reason for people to become criminals...if I shoplift some stuff, they'll pay for my education. If I rob a liquor store, they'll even give me job training. If I get caught embezzeling, they'll send me to business school so I'll know how to get away with it next time. How about focusing such programs on those who are law-abiding and need help getting a job rather than those who resort to crime? That might be a better preventative measure. Don't leave the unemployed with no other options.
  13. Oct 1, 2004 #12


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    Moonbear has a good point, if you give jobs to the people in the prisons then they are taken from the working non offenders, the jobs are already bieng sent to elsewhere where they can be made with cheapest costs. The job market in the more developed countries is already outsourcing to the third world countries. And there are people who don't resort to crime but they have the same need.
  14. Oct 1, 2004 #13


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    Amongst the options offered, I'd have to go with "change into factories". In other words, squeeze out useful man-hours of hard manual labour from inmates instead having them sit on their (or other inmates') asses.

    But this already happens in many places...
  15. Oct 1, 2004 #14
    It all depends on how you apply it, I don't think we should give Criminals University Education, What I was thinking by turning Jails into Factories is keep them locked up, but have them spend the day doing something usefull for the nation, as opposed to eating up, what is it $18 a day per criminal? They can pay that back easily if we get them doing work, and that's one less reason for the death penalty.
  16. Oct 1, 2004 #15


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    I have a similar view. This would be very problematic.

    Gukul's opinion is also reasonable. I'd go for it, but I doubt the ACLU would.
  17. Oct 1, 2004 #16


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    There are already educational/vocational programs in our prisons.

    Prisoners work and are trained at various jobs, either for the prison system or for outside businesses.

    Two of my clients are upscale sporting goods clothing manufacturers and prison inmates make the clothing. When you see that label "Made in USA", it's more than likely "Made in Prison in USA". :wink:
  18. Oct 3, 2004 #17
    Well, this is just one of the benefits.......the clearer picture is wider than this.

    Well, the cost value for and against the society is even more sophisticated than this. Detailed examination, espeically at the philosophical level, should reveal clearer picture ......... that yields GREATER VALUE and RETURNS for the society.

    This cannot manifest since there is no carelessness in the emerging CLEARER PICTURE. The money generated would have clear and well-managed source and it will have a clear and well-managed destination.

    Absolutely! And my next posting is just a start.
  19. Oct 3, 2004 #18
    Take for example the Rapists: what should be the nature of their punishment?

    That they must give back to the victims and the offended society while maintaining the fundamental principle of equity is without doubt the GOLDEN RULE.

    We know that a rapist is someone who loves sex and who wants to have it regardless of how he/she gets it. There are those who would argue that rapists are addicted to sex and would use any means to get laid. But one important thing we do know about rapists is that the majority of them are sane people, only a smaller percentage of them are those that can be classed as mad or psychopaths. If the golden rule is to be properly applied and adhered to, the rapists must be dealt with in the following ways:

    1) They must be employed in the Government-licensed brothels and Porn industry to earn money.

    The money would benefit:

    (a) The rape victim and his/her family in form of compensation

    (b) The wider community offended in terms of offsetting the costs that would have been incurred in holding the rapist in jail for notoriously but wastefully long period.

    (c) The rape victim himself who is undisputedly also protected by the golden rule. This would cover and offset the rehabilitation costs when the rapist has served his or her term.

    2) The current practice of locking them up to stay idle and unproductive for 7 years or more should come to an end. Don’t forget that most governments, especially in the western world, pay bank-busting bills (a) to investigate, arrest and prosecute offenders, (b) to keep different classes of offenders in jail for senselessly and wastefully long years, (c) to compensate victims of crime where appropriate, and (d) to rehabilitate offenders when they have exhausted their terms. Some of the benefits for this change are already given in (1) above.

    3) A new Discipline called OFFENDERS MANAGEMENT STUDIES should be introduced where the detailed intellectual format for this would be developed.
    This should not be confused with prison management and other social and welfare studies that are already in place. Offenders Management Studies combines Social, political, economics, scientific, and philosophical elements to produce broader level of the human understanding of the subject. And from this, new classes of intellectually well-equipped employees would emerge to service the new industry.

    4) Implementations (1) to (3), if adopted and properly exercised, would reschedule concepts and values at the philosophical level for the permanent good of the society. It would reschedule the legal system and the society at large from the SYSTEM OF VENGEANCE AND RETRIBUTION to a SYSTEM OF TOLERANT AND UNDERSTANDING. The Epistemological status of the Principle of COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY is such that it would be seen as moderated by higher level of the human intelligence, clarity and understanding rather than by ignorance and vice.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2004
  20. Oct 3, 2004 #19
    These suface-level reasons can be eliminated at the detailed clearer design and implementation level. The surface-level reasons via the device of prudent judgement and clarity must give way to the more rewarding underlying reasons. It's just a matter of the will to give it ago.

    Absolutely! I totally agree with you that this is also very important, but,equally, implementing the change so suggested should not rule this out nor stand on the way of it. We can combine the two and implement them successfully. That's what 'PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRACY' is all about. The current state of democracy that we are fighting wars upon wars to spread is stagnant.....and if absolute caution is not exercised it may lead to a total colapse of the world societies. But I believe that PROPER CONDUCT OF THE HUMAN REASON and FULL RESPECT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL LAW, which is the fudamental basis of the Principle of COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY, should eliminate this problem and ease your fears.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2004
  21. Oct 3, 2004 #20
    Correct......and I am also in agreement with what Moonbear says, but as my response to his posting suggests, the problem has been traced to and assocociated with bad management and lack of vision in our democratic institutions. The stagnated nature of these democratic institutions implies that we need to develop new progressive methods guided by clear visions and prudent judgements to move things forward. Collective Responsibility is a principle that is fundamental to coexistence and collective human survival, dedicible from a set of underlying but unmistaken natural laws. I don't want to bore you at this early stage of the debate with its underlying deductive details. At this stage let us concentrate with the brainstorming.......and the BIGGER but clearer picture, hopefully, should naturally emerge.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2004
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