# Should we get vaccinated?

## Should anyone who can do so get vaccinated against H1N1?

• ### It's not as simple as that.

• Total voters
41
drankin
I've never gotten a flu shot. Actually, I don't remember the last time I was sick. At least not in a way that wasn't self inflicted. Someone else can have my shot.

@Ontario:

I don't know how much these vaccines cost but meeting with the demand looks like a tough job.

Hmm the Minister of health for Ontario said we already have enough vaccine to allow everyone in the province to get vaccinated as well Ontario is one full week ahead of schedule... Obviously there will be huge line ups to get vaccinated though.

Last edited by a moderator:
Hmm the Minister of health for Ontario said we already have enough vaccine to allow everyone in the province to get vaccinated as well Ontario is one full week ahead of schedule... Obviously there will be huge line ups to get vaccinated though.

The problem isn't supply of the vaccine, it's enough workers to meet the demand.

The problem isn't supply of the vaccine, it's enough workers to meet the demand.

Well yeah who wouldn't expect there to be long line ups and a waiting time to get the vaccine? Would people rather it get mailed to their house... would love to see the outcome of that.

In that article it compares whats going on here to a third world nation. That's probably one of the most rediculous statements I've ever seen... this person should go live in a developing nation for a week... of their choice. They can even live in the city if they like; the ignorance of some people.

I'm sending my wife and son off to wait in those line-ups (they are similar in Alberta) tomorrow morning. I only had to wait in line for about 5 minutes for mine, there are perks for going to school at the Cross Cancer Institute.

The problem isn't supply of the vaccine, it's enough workers to meet the demand.

I was thinking of something like vending machines .. :rofl: but I guess it is hard to make anything work efficiently in this case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/8332597.stm

Last edited by a moderator:
How hard could it be to self-administer a vaccination? The only problem then would be how to deal with those rare few who have a serious reaction.

Makes you wonder whats really going on around town. lol. Thanks for the articles.

And self-administered vaccinations would be interesting. My mom has self-administered needles but they are specially designed that even a monkey could do it. Even then she needed to go through some course as well a nurse had to come in to our house the first time to show her properly how to do it.

I remembered in biology we learnt about technologies that would enable this to be possible...

++ http://www.bio-medicine.org/biology...Protection-Against-Pandemic-Influenza-3270-1/

I also recall my sister needing a vaccination of some sort. My dad had to buy it from the pharmacy and bring it to our family doctor for him to inject her with it. Would it have been dangerous for us to do it at home?

... I personally wouldn't want to give everyone in our country a virus. Since the vaccinations right now require an injection it takes quite a bit so if some people grouped together their vaccinations bam large quantities of the virus no?

Alfi
Why is it so hard to get a single answer to my question?



How much ?

My apologies. When I re-read that, it sounds very harsh. It was not meant to be.

My apologies. When I re-read that, it sounds very harsh. It was not meant to be.

Sorry Alfi, but I have no clue. That's why I mentioned it's free here, in Canada, not because I'm bragging but because that's the reason I don't have any information. Where are you at that it's going to cost you?

OmCheeto
Gold Member
It may be the case that the Swine flu is overall as deadly as ordinary flu and quite a but milder that ordinary flu in most cases. But then the statistics also show that 30% of the people that died from it were young and healthy. That's definitely not what happens in case of ordinary flu.

It appears not to be true for this strain:

Total deaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_by_country" [Broken]
Ped deaths: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm#MS"

roughly 14%

And a report last month showed that a majority of the children who died were not healthy.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5834a1.htm" [Broken] had one or more of the high-risk medical conditions.

Though they did say the following:
All children aged ≥6 months and caregivers of children aged <6 months should receive influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccine when available.

The CDC says that around http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccinesupply.htm" [Broken] have been shipped so far, or about enough for 1 in 20.

Last edited by a moderator:
JasonRox
Homework Helper
Gold Member
I got the vaccine shot three times yesterday. I went to 3 clinics. I figured I play it safe and get it 3 times.

I reckon the chances of my getting swine flu are close to 0%. I reckon if I get swine flu, the chances of me dying from it are still close to 0%. The chance of me dying from swine flu (almost 0%)2, that is very very unlikely.

I reckon the chances of my getting swine flu are close to 0%. I reckon if I get swine flu, the chances of me dying from it are still close to 0%. The chance of me dying from swine flu (almost 0%)2, that is very very unlikely.

Great conclusion mate.

Gold Member
I reckon the chances of my getting swine flu are close to 0%. I reckon if I get swine flu, the chances of me dying from it are still close to 0%. The chance of me dying from swine flu (almost 0%)2, that is very very unlikely.

I'll bet that perfectly healthy 13 year old boy had the exact same logic.

I am not familiar with the 13 year old boy story, but I think I can guess the significant part. If he had thought about it, then yes, he probably would have had the same logic - and it remains perfectly sound logic, regardless of the fact that he died (I presume). There are any number of extremely low probability possibilities that result in my death that could easily be eliminated. For example, I might get shot such that I would have survived if I had had a small metal shield in my shirt pocket. I don't doubt that lots of people have died in such a manner.

I think that's unfair. If nobody disagrees that the odds of my dying from swine flu are extremely low indeed... ridiculously low, then why should I give any special status to that potential death over all of the other very unlikely ones?

I think that's unfair. If nobody disagrees that the odds of my dying from swine flu are extremely low indeed... ridiculously low, then why should I give any special status to that potential death over all of the other very unlikely ones?

Because this one effects other people around you not just yourself.

I think the almost 0% chance of my getting it is sufficiently close to 0% for me to disregard it completely, even putting aside the fact that my life would still be in almost no danger if I were infected. By this I mean that for my not being vaccinated to affect people around me, I would first need to be infected and that is itself very unlikely... very very unlikely. If you judge it to be sufficiently likely to warrant getting vaccinated for the greater good, then go ahead, but calling me an idiot is unfair.

In addition to this... surely, it is the responsibility of the people who might be at risk of dying from it to have themselves vaccinated and not rely on other people vaccinating themselves to avoid transmitting it to them?

I think that's unfair. If nobody disagrees that the odds of my dying from swine flu are extremely low indeed... ridiculously low, then why should I give any special status to that potential death over all of the other very unlikely ones?

I disagree with your odds. I believe your odds of getting swine flu is probably above "almost 0%" whatever that means (my guess would be at least 1%, but I'm not a doctor of course). A potentially pandemic disease needs some sort of critical mass to become a pandemic and I don't believe we have reached that yet, and hope we won't. However I think there is a pretty large chance that it will happen and then the probability of getting swine flu is going to be pretty high. Also you're only evaluating the event that you die, but you also have to consider that 1) getting the swine flu, but not dieing, is likely an unpleasant event. 2) if a lot of people do like you, then the odds of it turning pandemic is much larger.

As for the comparison with getting shot: If there was a (medical) shot against getting shot and I was offered it for free, then I would certainly accept it.

Personally I'm getting my shot next Monday. One thing I don't really understand is why there are such ridiculous waiting times. Don't people reserve a time slot to get the shot, or do they just turn up? Personally I had a call from a nurse at the hospital who told me I was offered a for free shot and that I should set up a time with my GP within the next couple of weeks. My GP informs me that there may be 30mins of waiting, but that's it.

Wearing the small metal shield in my shirt pocket is equivalent to a vaccine against getting shot in that particular part of my chest.

I think that you overestimate the possibility of my getting swine flu, but we can't discuss that properly, I expect. I will accord no credence to the porposition that swine is or might be pandemic until I at least know of a single person who has or had it. Every case that has been reported to me has come through some sort of mass communication, the news and so on. I find that the fact that I don't know anyone who has told me that they know someone who knows someone who had swine flu is somewhat incongruent with the view of the situation that is being presented by the media.

Wearing the small metal shield in my shirt pocket is equivalent to a vaccine against getting shot in that particular part of my chest.

I think that you overestimate the possibility of my getting swine flu, but we can't discuss that properly, I expect. I will accord no credence to the porposition that swine is or might be pandemic until I at least know of a single person who has or had it. Every case that has been reported to me has come through some sort of mass communication, the news and so on. I find that the fact that I don't know anyone who has told me that they know someone who knows someone who had swine flu is somewhat incongruent with the view of the situation that is being presented by the media.

I've gotten swine flu and regular flu this year. I also know a few people who have gotten swine flu... Imagine that you're grandma had caught swine flu from someone she worked with and she died from it...

If that had happened, I expect that I might feel differently about it. Similarly, if my grandmother had died in a car crash recently, I would be wary of getting into a car, but that hasn't happened.

Edit - Ah, I see, your implication was different - however, I maintain my position. At the present, I have not been personally touched by this, so I can be perfectly logical about it - it is the responsibility of those at risk of death to have themselves vaccinated, if they don't and get the disease and die, that is their own lookout. If the situation that you described were to happen and that would obscure my view, that is irrelevant. A hypothetical situation of similar worth - what if I were put up for adoption when I was born and turned out a completely different person with a less logical mind, then my view would be different.

Last edited:
Wearing the small metal shield in my shirt pocket is equivalent to a vaccine against getting shot in that particular part of my chest.
Yes, and if the vaccine worked in that way I probably wouldn't bother to take it, but as the vaccine will actually protect me more like a bulletproof vest than a metal shield. I don't walk around with a metal shield in my pocket.

I think that you overestimate the possibility of my getting swine flu, but we can't discuss that properly, I expect. I will accord no credence to the porposition that swine is or might be pandemic until I at least know of a single person who has or had it. Every case that has been reported to me has come through some sort of mass communication, the news and so on. I find that the fact that I don't know anyone who has told me that they know someone who knows someone who had swine flu is somewhat incongruent with the view of the situation that is being presented by the media.
I totally agree that at the moment it isn't a pandemic and that it's blown out of proportions by the media. If we were 100% sure that the number of infections wouldn't increase dramatically, then I probably wouldn't bother. The reason I take the shot is that I believe it may become a pandemic. However you're probably right that at the moment laypeople (which I am) can't really have a rational discussion about the probabilities and I accept you choice to attribute a smaller probability to the event of you getting swine flu. Finally some anecdotal support: I actually know 2 people that were confirmed infected and plenty who believe they were, but were told that they should do nothing, but stay indoors and call the hospital in case the symptoms worsened considerably. I'm aware that anecdotal evidence isn't a rational basis for making a decision and that most people who believe they have the swine flu probably don't, but I thought I would provide a counterpoint to your "I don't know anyone infected".