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Simple theory of it all

  1. Dec 2, 2003 #1
    I got this simple theory that I would love some input on:

    If something is fathomable, it is possible.

    What does this mean? Simply, its about human thought process. I say that if something is thinkable, it can possibly exist. Not that it does exist but it is possible that it exists.

    eg. I think that man can fly.

    Now, everybody knows that this is impossible BUT because I think that man can fly, it is possible. Just human knowledge hasn't advanced to the stage where making humans fly is possible.

    Get it?

    I know this theory is a very vague theory but I'd love some input into it if possible.

    Thanks.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 2, 2003 #2
    Are you talking about the power to believe and the power of the subconscious mind!?

    Anything is possible as long as YOU believe... This doesn't mean that you should test it by jumping off of a bridge, because even though you think you believe, absolute belief is an entire other ballgame.

    It may be possible with years of evolution, that humans may develope respectible control of themselves and atoms or molecules within their surroundings... Such as telekinesis or telepathy. But today, it's a matter of being able to have belief in yourself so that you could develope such possibilities from within yourself. Once we could actually witness someone achieving such things without any chance of fraudulent interaction (A.K.A true "mind power") then others would discover it for themselves and eventually achieve such things. Seems like most everything has become encompassed by hazes and nonclarity and its difficult to really know what to believe.

    Start with yourself... Once you believe in what YOU can do or have done, then you can find more belief in the world around you. After that anything can and will become possible. Don't leap from the top and try to fly to the bottom... Begin on the ground and make your way upward.

    Then AGAIN, don't take even my words absolutely literally... I won't be held responsible for what you percieve (falsely or truthfully).
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2003
  4. Dec 2, 2003 #3
    if this theory is true, then what happens if you don't "believe" anything is possible? Does that nullify the theory since everything you believe is true. What does that say about the theory?
     
  5. Dec 2, 2003 #4
    If you absolutely believed that nothing was possible, wouldn't events still occur that would evidently affect you!? And if so wouldn't that lead you to unavoidably believe that something was still possible or at least give you doubt in your former belief!? Yet if you thouroughly and with unswaying conviction: Not believe that anything is possible, then it should become reality for you under this type of perceptory theory. The world is what you make of it, and if you don't make anything of it, then why are you here in the first place. I can't say that I've ever met anyone that didn't believe in something, even to the smallest degree.

    My wife often says that she never knows what to believe or that she doesn't believe in anything, yet she continues to live. Whether she admits it or not, is aware or not; she still believes in something.
     
  6. Dec 3, 2003 #5
    Everyone seems to start out as children believing anything can exist. We make alot of discoveries that seem to confirm this, like the apparently magic ability of birds and insects to fly, the ability of fish to breath under water, and our own ability to become more able as we get older: at 10 you can lift things you couldn't lift at 5, and, with no effort on your part, you are taller. Discoveries and changes like this give kids the illusory notion that anything they might concieve of is possible.

    Over and over, though, we find out that concieving a thing to be possible, doesn't make it possible in reality. Some things are, some things aren't.

    Your immagination gives you the ability to solve problems by allowing you to make mental models of things that aren't right in front of you. It allows you to explore possible alternatives for an arrangement more favorable to you.

    However, it is possible to immagine things that can't possibly exist outside your immagination.
     
  7. Dec 3, 2003 #6
    I believe that if this theory is true then it could never be proven since there is always gonna be some form of doubt within the believer. Or better yet that could be the proof. You could just say all that is impossible is just a weak attempt at making a stable reality where everything doesn't go as planned. As it says in the matrix, people would have a hard time accepting a perfect reality.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2003 #7
    Well, this isn't my theory, just an idea... I'll probably change my mind tomorrow, or the next... But hey, nobody's perfect... no thing is perfect... which is probably why we seem to exist!

    None the less, I think you (Einsteinian77) are still on the same sheet as I, and apparently every participant within this entire forum are on similar battlefields. Whatever you reply with gives me no reason to support my own beliefs... But you're definitely right on doubt always being present. If I didn't still have doubt, then I'd just be another GOD, and if I were that then I wouldn't waste my time talking about it.:wink:

    -----------------------

    My favorite thing to question within the universe.... Is ME!
     
  9. Dec 4, 2003 #8

    russ_watters

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    I have posted this countless times: Flight was NEVER impossible from a theoretical point of view, we have ALWAYS known flight was possible (birds can do it). We couldn't do it because we din't simply didn't know how yet. Some people doubted that we would ever know how, but thats NOT the same as being impossible.

    Its the difference between a scientific/theoretical barrier and an engineering barrier.

    The other usual (wrong) example is the sound barrier. Same thing. Now, the speed of light on the other hand is a THEORETICAL barrier. Travel at the speed of light is possible only if our highly developed theory of the nature of light is wrong. Is it possible that we are wrong? Sure (though extrordinarily unlikely). But until we are shown to be wrong, travel at the speed of light is theoreticall impossible.

    For the initial question - I can imagine a lot of things that are impossible for a lot of reasons. Is it possible that I could snap my fingers and become God? No, not everything is possible.
     
  10. Mar 2, 2004 #9
    Russ_watters i have a problem with your line of thinking, in the last you state "For the initial question - I can imagine a lot of things that are impossible for a lot of reasons. Is it possible that I could snap my fingers and become God? No, not everything is possible." but is it not true that from the beginnings of our lives the community shapes what we think and believe. Take Christianity for example thier belief system says that there is only one god and he is higher than you and you cannot be him. So were you to believe in Christianity then you might want to become god but you wouldn't believe that you could!

    So maybe the human mind cannot truly fathom flight because no-one has done so before. Shahil said "eg. I think that man can fly. Now, everybody knows that this is impossible BUT because I think that man can fly, it is possible. Just human knowledge hasn't advanced to the stage where making humans fly is possible." Maybe the true key to belief is no possible idea that you could be wrong. If you were raised thinking that at the age of 18 you could fly would you not try on the day of your 18th birthday? I truly believe the only thing stopping the human mind from belief is doubt!

    Doubt is in my opinion the only thing which stops us from achieving everything thought impossible.
     
  11. Mar 2, 2004 #10

    megashawn

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    Well, doubt is also the thing that stopped Robbie Knievil (spelling?) from jumping the Grand Canyon on his first attempt. He doubted he'd be able to jump it due to the extreme winds. Had he not had the doubt, he'd surely be dead now, and another good bike wasted.

    No, doubt is not a bad thing. Doubt steps in when we let our imagination run wild and think we can defy laws of nature.

    As to the original statement that anything you believe can be true, well, in a sense due to technology this is true. Anything you can imagine can be created in a virtual world and explored on a pc or video game system.

    Computers, video games, etc are merely an extension of our imagination. It allows us to bring our most wild and hair brained ideas to life, even if it couldn't happen in the real world. So ya, in a sense anything you can imagine could be real, provided you know how to program/design 3d models.
     
  12. Mar 3, 2004 #11

    Phobos

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    Odin - It's certainly a nice thought but I don't think it would hold up to test cases where people are (1) insane (2) insane from drugs (3) raised by wolves (4) suffering amnesia, (5) etc...? In other words, people who are separated from their societal training. Maybe it's just Hollywood, but it seems like people on drugs who think they can fly just keep falling to the ground. Is the senior citizen suffering from dementia actually in the alternate reality they see in their minds?
     
  13. Mar 3, 2004 #12
    you may be right but all these people have been raised within a community and the mind is a tricky thing. I mean those on drugs might be led to believe they can fly by the drugs but they were raised in a community where they were taught that they couldn't fly, breath under water etc. And everyone has a subconcious mind which makes us breath, beat our heart etc. could it not also tell us what we can and cannot do. Many people claim that they have a conscience, a little voice in thier heads which tells them what is right and wrong.

    Amnesia patients can still talk, understand others and act normal they have just forgotten the things which the conscious mind has had to learn.

    Those who are insane were still brought up in a community and like others know thier "boundaries".

    And those raised by wolves act like wolves, talk to wolves and believe they are wolves but wolves aren't to different from humans, they breath air, eat meat and walk on the ground. They are not really brought up thinking that they can do anything that we humans cannot.

    And I have never heard of a human child being raised by birds.
     
  14. Mar 3, 2004 #13

    Evo

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    The human body is not capable of "flying" without an external object/force. I don't have time right now to find links but it has to do with our bones, muscles, the fact that we are not aerodynamic, our proportions, appendages, etc...

    I also have to disagree on "if we think it, it can happen". Wouldn't it be nice if that were true? I would like to rule the world, (with unlimited magical powers to make anything happen). MWAAHAHAAAA!!!!! I would fix things in a jiffy.

    Probably not going to happen. :frown:
     
  15. Mar 4, 2004 #14

    Phobos

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    Hi Odin - Understood. But realize that your line of thinking kind of dismisses any debate a priori. In other words, there's no way to falsify your idea. If a person flies, then you're right. If the person falls, then you may still be right.

    How about this ethically dubious experiment...?
    Raise a new baby in a sheltered environment and have everyone constantly tell that baby for the first year or two that he/she can fly. At that age, infants/toddlers believe whatever you tell them. You could even have mom & dad swinging around on wires at times to prove it. Then have him/her try to fly (short fall onto pillows of course :smile:). Any bets that gravity won't win? My money is on the laws of physics.

    With the mind-over-all idea, the reality we understand would be completely false (all an illusion constructed by our mind/minds). I have not seen evidence to support that wild idea. At least, my mind has not shown it to me.
     
  16. Mar 4, 2004 #15
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    Sorry guys but i've always wanted to discuss the theory of a new culture, start from scratch and see what NEW inventions and religions come up. Yes I agree that my theory is out there but I'd LOVE to be proved wrong on this theory. I know I'll race you, first person to prove my theory right or wrong wins. Ha ha ha ha ha .
     
  17. Mar 4, 2004 #16

    Evo

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    Odin, you should post in the philosophy forum, this would be more appropriate for discussion there perhaps.

    You ask someone to prove you right or wrong. I can show you tons of examples where you are wrong, can you show me a single one where you are right?

    Man cannot fly. Asking if I can prove that will *always* be true, yes, unless the laws of physics change or man himself drastically changes. But if you throw those kinds of possibilities into the discussion, then *nothing* can ever be proven or disproven.

    So, let's set a guideline, under the *current* laws of physics, with every creature/object being unchanged from how they are today, yeah, I can say you're wrong. It won't matter what a person thinks.
     
  18. Mar 7, 2004 #17
    Actually

    But don't you see in everyday life we do this all the time. Christians believe that when praying for someone thier prayers will be answered and there are some cases where they have actually healed a person from a irreprible disease. And there have been multiple cases in hospitals where medicine shipments have been late, not wanting thier patients to worry they gave the patients who needed painkillers sugar pills, and thier pains stopped. And I have mentioned only a few.

    It seem that even within you "guidelines" of the current laws of physics people are proving me right as we speak.
     
  19. Mar 7, 2004 #18

    Evo

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    Re: Actually

    There is no way to prove that the prayers healed the person, the person could have healed on their own.
    That is known as the "placebo" effect. Some people will think they feel better if they *think* they have taken medication. It doesn't mean the pain has gone away, they're just not paying as much attention to it, or blocking what they are feeling from their mind. It doesn't work for a lot of people. It's not quite altering physical reality. :smile:

    These are quite a bit different than saying a man can fly if he thinks it.

    You're a creative thinker Odin. Don't stop thinking outside the box. It's always good to have an open mind to what might be possible and not be restricted to what is *known* as fact, facts can change.
     
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