Exploring Time Theory: Speed, Aging, and Possibilities

[PaulRacer]

What happens to time at the speed of light? If a person is traveling at a high speed do they age faster or slower relative to a stationary person? Is it theoretically possible to stop time?

 

[diazona]

Well, I can say this: if you see a person traveling past you at a high speed (relative to yourself, of course), then you will observe them aging slower than you are. But that person will see you traveling past them at a high speed, and therefore they will see you aging slower than they are. It sounds strange but this is actually possible (and real) because there is no "absolute time" to fix one particular rate of aging that all others must be measured against.

As for stopping time... consider that person from the last paragraph. The closer they go to the speed of light, the slower you see them aging relative to you, so you would think that if they ever actually reached the speed of light, you would see them not aging at all. But it's impossible to actually reach the speed of light, so it's kind of a philosophical question, not a physical one.

 

[ikkyu]

If you travel with the speed of light, you will see the infinite length contraction of space in the direction you are traveling. So you get to your (final) destination in no time.

You will also suffer the infinite blue-shift radiation coming head on. And see nothing else in any other directions.

If you can send back your signal, other people will see you moving at the speed of light, frozen in time, and reach other places in finite-time.

 

[Nabeshin]

If you travel at the speed of light, you are not living in our universe.

The question is about as meaningless as what's north of the north pole.

 

[LawrenceM]

To ask another way. If we could attach an atomic clock to a photon and start timing the instant the photon leaves the surface of the sun, how much "time" would pass, from the photon’s perspective, before it hits our eyes on Earth?

And please don’t respond with “if you could attach a clock to a photon, you don’t live in our universe…”

 

[Nabeshin]

If you could attach a clock to a photon, you don't live in our universe.

Seriously, I'm not just giving a flippant response, this question is just as meaningless as the other one. It is IMPOSSIBLE for anything with mass to travel the speed of light. It is MEANINGLESS to ask what things "look like" in the frame of the photon (or any particle moving at c).

The only similar meaningful questions are what happens as you approach c. As velocity approaches c, the proper time to travel between any two points shrinks arbitrarily close to zero, but this does not imply that a photon experiences "no time", because to ask such a question is (see paragraph 2).

 

[LawrenceM]

Okay, so if I ask the same question but change "photon" to "neutrino" and "c" to "nearly c" - The clock would read something arbitrarily close to zero.

So from the neutrino's perspective, it takes – arbitrarily – almost no time to traverse 1 AU, while we would time that journey as something slightly over 8 minutes. Or am I still off in my own universe?

 

[diazona]

Okay, so if I ask the same question but change "photon" to "neutrino" and "c" to "nearly c" - The clock would read something arbitrarily close to zero.

So from the neutrino's perspective, it takes – arbitrarily – almost no time to traverse 1 AU, while we would time that journey as something slightly over 8 minutes. Or am I still off in my own universe?

No, that's right. From the neutrino's perspective it takes a very small amount of time to traverse what we would measure as 1 AU. (How small exactly the amount of time is, of course, depends on how fast it's traveling)

 

[LawrenceM]

Thank you diazona, this is my first day on this site. very cool. Now I need to find where the "absolute rest" discussions are hiding. (i know, i know - not in this universe)

So many questions, so few physics classes…

 

[PaulRacer]

If you travel at the speed of light, you are not living in our universe.

The question is about as meaningless as what's north of the north pole.

Thanks, that was helpful.

 

[PaulRacer]

Heres what I am getting at, we are basing all of our knowledge on our size. If you had a motor in space spinning anything with a circumference of 186,000 miles at 60 rpm there is the speed of light. Why wouldn't the Earth be twisted inside due to time infraction in the core vs. the surface? If there is a time infraction twist does it pull inward or push outward. It, to me would look much like the milky way if this were true. Is there such a thing as time related friction? Sorry for the disjointed thought, I just spent all day grinding steel in a factory and the beer went down easy.

 

[PaulRacer]

Well, I can say this: if you see a person traveling past you at a high speed (relative to yourself, of course), then you will observe them aging slower than you are. But that person will see you traveling past them at a high speed, and therefore they will see you aging slower than they are. It sounds strange but this is actually possible (and real) because there is no "absolute time" to fix one particular rate of aging that all others must be measured against.

As for stopping time... consider that person from the last paragraph. The closer they go to the speed of light, the slower you see them aging relative to you, so you would think that if they ever actually reached the speed of light, you would see them not aging at all. But it's impossible to actually reach the speed of light, so it's kind of a philosophical question, not a physical one.

Thank you for putting that in simple terms, I am just a thinker with no math background. Trying to digest it though, I'll post later.

 

[russ_watters]

Heres what I am getting at, we are basing all of our knowledge on our size. If you had a motor in space spinning anything with a circumference of 186,000 miles at 60 rpm there is the speed of light.

That is a violation of special relativity and so impossible. As the object spins faster and faster, it takes more and more power to continue the acceleration.

Why wouldn't the Earth be twisted inside due to time infraction in the core vs. the surface? If there is a time infraction twist does it pull inward or push outward. It, to me would look much like the milky way if this were true. Is there such a thing as time related friction? Sorry for the disjointed thought, I just spent all day grinding steel in a factory and the beer went down easy.

I don't understand any of that - it sounds like gibberish.

 

[LawrenceM]

i think he's asking if time moves slower on Earth's surface than in the core due to the difference in rotational velocity. If so, what would be the implications?

 

[PaulRacer]

i think he's asking if time moves slower on Earth's surface than in the core due to the difference in rotational velocity. If so, what would be the implications?

Exactly, if you stretch a rubber band, there is energy expended and that energy becomes heat. So does the time differential stretch of the Earth mass create heat consequentially slowing the rotation or some other effect?

 

[PaulRacer]

If I can spin an object on Earth at 60 RPM and the only difference between it and an object 186,000 miles in circumference is size (I assume this is related to mass), why is the speed of light a limiting factor? Is it because of time slowing or the theoretical increase in mass? Both objects have the same rate of rotational velocity in the center. Only a small portion of the object would actually reach the speed of light. What does relativity say about a single object traveling at different velocities within itself?

 

[PaulRacer]

Exactly, if you stretch a rubber band, there is energy expended and that energy becomes heat. So does the time differential stretch of the Earth mass create heat consequentially slowing the rotation or some other effect?

Is it possible that this twist/pull could be the cause of gravity? Sorry for so many questions, I'm sure this stuff is elementary to you guys.

 

[PaulRacer]

What about in the case of a black hole where the diameter is so small that the time differential is very minute. Does the twist unwind releasing all of it's energy or would this require a reversal of time?

 

[LawrenceM]

I wish I understood enough to give you any type of answer. I'm still not sure if anyone has confirmed whether time differential on a given object exists. Even if it does, I'm not sure if anyone has confirmed that a time differential within an object can cause mass to stretch or create any type of energy whatsoever.

 

[PaulRacer]

I wish I understood enough to give you any type of answer. I'm still not sure if anyone has confirmed whether time differential on a given object exists. Even if it does, I'm not sure if anyone has confirmed that a time differential within an object can cause mass to stretch or create any type of energy whatsoever.

Do you think this makes some sense though or am I just babbling?

 

[George Jones]

What about in the case of a black hole where the diameter is so small that the time differential is very minute.

Time differential between what and what?

Does the twist unwind

What twist? The dragging of spacetime by a rotating object? The angular momentum of the rotating object?

releasing all of it's energy

To what does "its" refer? What energy?

or would this require a reversal of time?

 

[LawrenceM]

Do you think this makes some sense though or am I just babbling?

I'm in no position to judge anyone in this forum.

What I’m wondering is if there’s any such thing as time differential within an object. The object itself is moving through space and time as a single entity, even if spinning. If you spin around in a circle with your arms out, do your fingernails experience time at a slower rate than your belly button? No. But a micro-organism living under your finger nail will perceive time at a slower rate than the micro-organisms living in your belly button. Point is, time is a function of perception from a reference point, not a state or a force.

 

[PaulRacer]

Time differential because core velocities and surface velocities on Earth vary by up to 1000 miles an hour, the faster you travel, the more time slows. Over time this slight difference in time should add up and cause a twist due to the surface time rotation trying to catch up with the core time rotation. If there is a "twist", I would think that it would have a lot of stored energy. If time stopped would this twist still remain or would it unwind itself? Sorry my explanations are not very good.

 

[PaulRacer]

Thanks for interpreting for me Lawrence!

 

[ZapperZ]

Time differential because core velocities and surface velocities on Earth vary by up to 1000 miles an hour, the faster you travel, the more time slows. Over time this slight difference in time should add up and cause a twist due to the surface time rotation trying to catch up with the core time rotation. If there is a "twist", I would think that it would have a lot of stored energy. If time stopped would this twist still remain or would it unwind itself? Sorry my explanations are not very good.

Maybe you need to first understand basic Special Relativity. You are now making wild speculation based on very poor understanding of the fundamentals, and making rather puzzling statements connecting things that have no or vague connections.

Please note that while we welcome someone trying to understand or learn something, we draw the line at people making wild speculations, especially on something they haven't quite understood. This is clearly stated in the http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/558/img2776t.jpg" that you had agreed to.

Ask ONE question at a time, and make sure you understand that FIRST before moving on to the next one. If not, you'll be tripping over yourself like what you are doing in here.

Zz.

 

[PaulRacer]

Ok, sorry, I'm just very excited about a thought I had. I work in a factory and my day is very boring. I'll stop now.

 

[Naty1]

i think he's asking if time moves slower on Earth's surface than in the core due to the difference in rotational velocity. If so, what would be the implications?

Exactly, if you stretch a rubber band, there is energy expended and that energy becomes heat.

from v = wr (w being angular velocity) someone at the surface moves faster than someone in a mine 2,000 feet underground.

Time does slow with increasing gravitational potential...so time does slow a bit closer to the center of the Earth due to stronger gravity. And faster when you are aloft in a balloon. There are some long discussions here about that.

In addition to mass, like the earth, energy and pressure also increase gravity and consequently slow time a bit...so in theory a stretched rubber band (more potential energy) is attracted just a bit more strongly to Earth due to increased mass/energy and time slows ever so slightly nearby.

 

[PaulRacer]

from v = wr (w being angular velocity) someone at the surface moves faster than someone in a mine 2,000 feet underground.

Time does slow with increasing gravitational potential...so time does slow a bit closer to the center of the Earth due to stronger gravity. And faster when you are aloft in a balloon. There are some long discussions here about that.

In addition to mass, like the earth, energy and pressure also increase gravity and consequently slow time a bit...so in theory a stretched rubber band (more potential energy) is attracted just a bit more strongly to Earth due to increased mass/energy and time slows ever so slightly nearby.

Thank you. Where should I begin? I would like to learn how to answer my own questions.

 

[LawrenceM]

Zapper's post was a bit harsh, but he makes a good point. I think this forum is meant, among many other things, to help fill in academic gaps that enthusiasts like you and I have. But you have to start with a question and not jump in with a speculative theory, or else the academics will blast you (as I’m learning). I’ve asked a couple of very basic questions on this forum and have had extremely helpful and respectful answers posted back to me in short time. There’s an amazing collection of minds on here that are more than willing to share what they know.

 

[PaulRacer]

Zapper's post was a bit harsh, but he makes a good point. I think this forum is meant, among many other things, to help fill in academic gaps that enthusiasts like you and I have. But you have to start with a question and not jump in with a speculative theory, or else the academics will blast you (as I’m learning). I’ve asked a couple of very basic questions on this forum and have had extremely helpful and respectful answers posted back to me in short time. There’s an amazing collection of minds on here that are more than willing to share what they know.

No, I totally agree with him, this is a learning environment. Me spouting off randomly could possibly dumb someone else down. Besides, this is not my yard. Thanks for the encouragement.