This is not a question - more a topic of discussion; as I am not expecting definitive answers. At the center of black holes we stipulate singularities, now I understand that mathematically a singularity does not make sense; infinite density and zero spacial volume being irreconcilable and an indication of a breakdown in current theory. So my discussion is this: However would/could black holes form without a singularity? and Is it possible for singularities to form from our reference frame, ie: the reference frame of the external observer? Would it not be impossible for a singularity to form on the basis of properties of time dilation in extreme gravity - at least from our reference frame as we would be mapping a finite observer time to an infinite coordinate time? or Am I looking at this too simply, and its is curvature that reaches infinite proportions? Just looking for some general discussion and possible laymans easy reading. Thanks in advance, Cosmo.