Smart or Attractive? Biology's Debate on Selection

[JasonRox]

There you go thinking you know me when you don't know how many hundreds of men I'm talking about meeting in person and how I can group the majority of them. I don't have actual preconceived categories for anyone online or off line, I was just trying to get across what most of the men are like "that I meet in person".

See, you don't realize that when I would "go out", well, this is how a typical night would go. We'd park, I'd step out of the car and suddenly 20 something year old men would start screaming and hooting and whistling.

A couple of them would usually fall to their knees in front of me, there would usually be someone asking me to marry them.

Men would run from across the street and knock my girlfriend over just to tell me that I was the most beautiful woman they'd ever seen.

I'd get guys coming up to me saying things like "my friends and I just wanted to thank you for being here".

A guy came out of the bathroom and said that every guy in there was talking about my legs.

Men would fall down stairs when they saw me.

If there was a line in front of a night club, I'd be pulled into the club by the bouncer and told that I'd been "spotted" and given and MVP pass so I could always just walk right in.

If I went to a restaurant or exclusive bar, the owner would quite often come out to sit with me and comp me and my party.

Once I was meeting someone at the bar at a Marriott, I pointed at their table and motioned for them to come over, instantly two different guys bounced up from their tables and came running up to me thinking I was motioning to them, and my husband was standing next to me.

I got up once at a table in a club in Chicago and started to put on my coat and couple of guys ran over and started helping me.

At a bar here, the owner of the most expessive, exclusive club offered me a free membership. He said based on what he was hearing and observing of men around me, I would be worth my weight in gold to have me there.

I went to have my transmission looked at and the owner offered me the job of being their spokesmodel ( I was 16 and my mom said no).

I could go on and on.

NOW, do you understand why I feel the way I do about going out and meeting men. Nice, shy guys when they'd see all the men around me would never come near me.

So, don't think you know me or why I can make the generalizations I make, and I'm not exaggerating about any of this.

And, you can still get to know men. Men do immature things and so do women. If it's a little too immature, then yeah that's creepy.

Also, I do believe all the above happen. Don't get me wrong, but that happens to women in general. I've talked to many girls and they all have stories like that.

 

[Huckleberry]

Evo, have you tried introducing yourself to men that you think you might be interested in but have not been approached by? If the men that are approaching you are not of the proper caliber then you will need to take the role of the aggressor towards some lucky guy. Maybe a passive aggressive strategy would be appropriate.

I've never understood completely the rules of dating. Is the woman allowed to make her interest in a man known first? Is subtlety the general rule until official interest is established?

 

[Evo]

Evo, have you tried introducing yourself to men that you think you might be interested in but have not been approached by? If the men that are approaching you are not of the proper caliber then you will need to take the role of the aggressor towards some lucky guy. Maybe a passive aggressive strategy would be appropriate.

I've never understood completely the rules of dating. Is the woman allowed to make her interest in a man known first? Is subtlety the general rule until official interest is established?

In public it's been nearly impossible. Which is why I find meeting over the internet so much better. In person, how do I know that I would like some guy I see sitting across a room? On the internet I can talk to that guy and have some idea if we get along *before* we meet, or I might decide that there is no reason to meet.

 

[Huckleberry]

In public it's been nearly impossible. Which is why I find meeting over the internet so much better. In person, how do I know that I would like some guy I see sitting across a room? On the internet I can talk to that guy and have some idea if we get along *before* we meet, or I might decide that there is no reason to meet.

The best way to find out if you like someone is to say hello. Then talk to them and see how you get along. I expect there will be a lot of awkwardness on his part as he wonders why this attractive woman is striking up a conversation with him? You might feel some too if approaching men is something you are not familiar with. I sometimes wonder at how you judge groups of people:tongue2:, but I know you are a good judge of individual character. You can use that to your advantage on the internet or in person.

 

[rewebster]

Evo-It almost sounds like you feel like you've been denied a normal life just because you were born to be more 'attractive' than most.


---and cursed with maybe being a little smarter and not shallow at the same time.

---------------------------

who is red rum?

 

[Evo]

The best way to find out if you like someone is to say hello. Then talk to them and see how you get along. I expect there will be a lot of awkwardness on his part as he wonders why this attractive woman is striking up a conversation with him? You might feel some too if approaching men is something you are not familiar with.

I've almost always done the asking out when I was in my teens. I'd just go up to the guy and ask him where he was taking me Friday night. Always worked. But I usually knew the guy from other friends, or work (I worked at a bookstore).

When you get older, if you don't attend church, bars are about the only place to find large pits of single men.

I find TONS of married men, or in the case of Red Rum, he has a long time girlfriend and he's completely faithful to her. Now, *he'd* make a great catch, alas I am relegated to being just an imaginary friend.

 

[radou]

I've almost always done the asking out when I was in my teens.

Now, that's the spirit!

When you get older, if you don't attend church, bars are about the only place to find large pits of single men.

What about sneaking into a mass on Sunday?

 

[Evo]

What about sneaking into a mass on Sunday?

But, they would probably be religious.

Oh come on, Red Rum is going to be out of touch for 3 weeks starting on the 21st and I need a temporary replacement to listen to me whine. I'm the only PF sister without a man for the holidays.

100 GOOBF cards for anyone finding someone for me to annoy for the holidays!

Did I mention I have a great voice? My whining isn't all *that* annoying. :grumpy:

 

[Huckleberry]

When you get older, if you don't attend church, bars are about the only place to find large pits of single men.

I'm in that boat with you. My advice ends about there. Maybe try a club if there are any near you. Something that you enjoy anyway, hiking, cycling, reading, whatever.

That reminds me. When I first registered here at PF I had a full hairline. Now it's noticably receded. It's a bit upsetting, not so much because I care about the appearance of it, but because it is a constant reminder that I'm getting older in a hurry.

 

[rewebster]

Did I mention I have a great voice? My whining isn't all *that* annoying. :grumpy:

maybe that's why the dog pees in the house

 

[Mk]

When you get older, if you don't attend church, bars are about the only place to find large pits of single men.

As for what I say, bars are not only filled with large pits of singles, but large pits of singles I wouldn't touch. If they're in a bar they're not for me. If they're in a church they're not for me either

 

[radou]

But, they would probably be religious.

... or simply going to church for the same reason as you did.

Even if they were religious, would that bother you a lot? Well, I don't know what "religious people" are like where you live. If they're all stereotypes, then I understand you.

Oh come on, Red Rum is going to be out of touch for 3 weeks starting on the 21st and I need a temporary replacement to listen to me whine. I'm the only PF sister without a man for the holidays.

Was it so hard to produce Red Rum in your mind, that you can't produce another imaginary friend now? :tongue:

Joke aside, holidays are tough. I suggest we start a thread named "A list of volunteers to help out Evo" and then you can vote for whom you like the most.

 

[Moonbear]

A couple of them would usually fall to their knees in front of me, there would usually be someone asking me to marry them.

Men would run from across the street and knock my girlfriend over just to tell me that I was the most beautiful woman they'd ever seen.

...

NOW, do you understand why I feel the way I do about going out and meeting men. Nice, shy guys when they'd see all the men around me would never come near me.

I think the point Jason might have been trying to make, or at least the one I'm going to make about this, is how many of those guys who acted so outrageously around you did you give a chance and actually try dating? How do you know they weren't intelligent, sweet guys who were just really bad at knowing a nice way to pick up women? How do you know the shy guy who wouldn't get involved in that scene was going to be nice and smart? He might have just been a clueless, dorky, insufferably neurotic shy guy.

Some of those bold guys who would flock around you may have been that shallow, others might have just been very playful, while yet others may have been noticing you from across the room interacting with your friends and after being egged on by friends and plied with alcohol, finally walked up and introduced himself in such an outrageous way because he thought he needed to do so to compete with all the other guys vying for your attention.

Here's a question...if you think it's the quiet, shy guy you're interested in, have you ever looked around a bar and seen such a guy sitting in a corner and taken it upon yourself to head over to his table and start talking? If not, how are you going to meet him?

 

[Evo]

I think the point Jason might have been trying to make, or at least the one I'm going to make about this, is how many of those guys who acted so outrageously around you did you give a chance and actually try dating? How do you know they weren't intelligent, sweet guys who were just really bad at knowing a nice way to pick up women?

Given that I was in my forties and they were in their twenties...it wasn't worth getting into. That's another reason I stopped going out, I could have been the mother of most of these guys. Then when my girls started going out, there was no way I was going to be at the same clubs they were at with their friends.

Here's a question...if you think it's the quiet, shy guy you're interested in, have you ever looked around a bar and seen such a guy sitting in a corner and taken it upon yourself to head over to his table and start talking? If not, how are you going to meet him?

Yes, I have. I met a great guy and he was so shy that he had trouble looking at me, getting close to me, one night I finally grabbed him at the curb and kissed him to make it clear I was interested. It took his best friend 3 weeks to get him to call me and ask me out after that. And this was a very well known, powerful attorney here, he was in charge of a few of the most popular charitable dances and social functions in town due to his social status. I couldn't pry words out of his mouth.

 

[Evo]

Joke aside, holidays are tough. I suggest we start a thread named "A list of volunteers to help out Evo" and then you can vote for whom you like the most.

Ok, you can start it.

<sticks 50 goobf cards into radous computer>

 

[Moonbear]

In public it's been nearly impossible. Which is why I find meeting over the internet so much better. In person, how do I know that I would like some guy I see sitting across a room?

The same way everyone meets new people, you have to talk to them. You can usually tell after a brief conversation if they have nothing to talk about that's interesting to you. Beyond that, that's the point of dating, to interact a few more times and talk more and find out if there's any reason to continue dating.

On the internet I can talk to that guy and have some idea if we get along *before* we meet, or I might decide that there is no reason to meet.

That's the same thing as dating in person, just without having to leave the comfort of home. With someone you've met in person, that's why you trade numbers, to talk to each other over the phone to find out the same things. It seems like you've relaxed your rules for men you meet online.

One thing I wonder about how people perceive online dating (and this isn't about just you now, but the medium in general) is whether it's really any less superficial to talk to someone based on appearances (in person across a room, or online based on a photo) than it is to talk to someone because they list an interest in the same books or subjects as you? And, is it any less superficial to rule out people based on appearances than it is based on something like spelling mistakes in an online profile?

Just as an example of that latter point, I have a very good friend who is attractive, funny, highly intelligent, very successful in his career, etc., but for some reason, has to be one of the most atrocious spellers I've ever met. It's sort of a running joke between us..."How can you be so smart and yet be so bad at spelling?" He's one of those guys who used to act like a total goofball in bars when out with his buddies. We joke that had we met in a bar or online, I'd probably have never given him the time of day.

 

[Evo]

The same way everyone meets new people, you have to talk to them. You can usually tell after a brief conversation if they have nothing to talk about that's interesting to you. Beyond that, that's the point of dating, to interact a few more times and talk more and find out if there's any reason to continue dating.

And then they start showing up at your house at 1AM demanding to be let inside because when they called you from their car 30 minutes earlier wanting to come over you told them, no, you were sleeping. So they fly into a jealous rage and demand to be let into your home in the middle of the night looking for that guy you must be hiding.

And he was one of the saner ones.

Other guys would call me from across the street. Show up places they knew I'd be. AAARRRGGHHH!

I think I mentioned the one guy I dated that staged his own disappearance to see what my reaction would be? The one that had to take out the restraining order on the goldigger stalking him when we started dating, that was the ex-wife of my best friend's fiance that (the stalker) is now in prison for bludgeoning her wealthy husband's head in with a 2x4 while he was asleep in their bed.

Tell me about how "real life" beats online?

I hope that doesn't frighten any potential suitors away. These people were the cream of society, if I named names you be "OMG, THEM?"

 

[Artman]

All this talk of beauty is so shallow, I'm really disappointed at the whole bunch of you. :grumpy:

Okay, so the poll says homely, but does she have big boobs? That's the real question. :tongue2: (Just kidding.)




Beauty is so subjective, my idea of beautiful is far from perfect, or ideal. Fortunately, my wife is both intelligent and cute (IMO), so I did not have to make this choice in real life.

 

[ShawnD]

Is the woman allowed to make her interest in a man known first? Is subtlety the general rule until official interest is established?

I can't speak for the rest of the forum but I think it's sexy as hell when a woman knows what she wants.

 

[jim mcnamara]

All of this is very confusing especially in the context of the original poll.
smart & ugly vs. cute & dumb has now become:
irresistable & smart trying to find smart & shy. Over the internet on alternate Tuesdays in months ending the letter "Q".

There are times when being a member of a sexually dimorphic species has it's downsides.
This looks like one of 'em.

 

[Doc Al]

There are times when being a member of a sexually dimorphic species has it's downsides.

That's the story of my life, brother.

 

[GleefulNihilism]

That's the story of my life, brother.

That's a pretty short story.


I officially voted now, for smarts. Because if I'm in a situation where I absolutely have to pickone of those two choices then I'm going to need all the brains I can get access to for getting out of that situation.

 

[Doc Al]

That's a pretty short story.

I'm not quite done yet. :tongue2:

 

[jim mcnamara]

I'm not quite done yet. :tongue2:

Are you medium or rare?

 

[turbo]

It should be pointed out that stalking, obsessive possessive behaviors, etc are not confined to the male gender. It's something that many men have had to deal with. Still, life goes on, and you have to work through those negatives. I have had several very negative experiences in this vein, but nothing that could keep me from finding my most compatible other-half, eventually.

The idea that churches and bars are the best places to "hook up" with a potential love interest is poorly thought-out. When my nephew had gotten divorced and was sick of the bar scene, he was pretty blue. I told him that he should start doing his laundry in a coin-op laundromat in our town (county seat with lots of smaller towns on the periphery), and when women were coming in the door with loads of laundry, go open the door for them. Then, as he was loading his machines, he should ask harmless things like "how much detergent do you put in these big commercial washers?" etc. If a woman was slightly interested in him, she would help him get squared away, and if she was more interested, she might strike up a conversation. A laundromat on a Saturday afternoon is pretty neutral territory, doing laundry takes time, and talking to somebody who might be interesting can be a whole lot better than thumbing through 2-year-old copies of People magazine. It didn't take him long to meet some good potential dates/mates.

Note: I'm no genius in human interactions. When my wife and I were first married, she didn't have a driver's license, and when we were chasing jobs around (construction for me, textile or shoe-shop millwork for her, usually) I used to spend some time every week at a laundromat while she took care of some housekeeping, cooking, etc, back at whatever walk-up freezer of an apartment we were currently living in. Since I worked with my hands in some potentially dangerous situations and I didn't want to give up guitar-playing due to some accident involving jewelry, I never wore any and have never had a wedding ring. I KNOW the laundromat gambit works, and I wasn't even trying, with the diversionary questions, etc. Young women would strike up conversations, introduce themselves, talk about their jobs, current movies, etc with none of the baggage that comes from hitting on somebody in a bar.

Social/civic organizations can be OK places to meet people, but there is a built-in history/familiarity/hierarchy/gossip network involved in many, and that gives the participants too many excuses to be disingenuous/dishonest, etc. No such pressures at the old laundromat. Everybody is presumed to be there to get their clothes cleaned and dried, and if your conversation with the cute math-major using dryer #5 isn't promising, well, there's no harm, no foul. Nobody got rejected or put down, and it didn't happen in front of a lot of boozed-up buddies even if either person perceives a slight.

 

[Artman]

All of this is very confusing especially in the context of the original poll.
smart & ugly vs. cute & dumb has now become:
irresistable & smart trying to find smart & shy. Over the internet on alternate Tuesdays in months ending the letter "Q".

There are times when being a member of a sexually dimorphic species has it's downsides.
This looks like one of 'em.

It's just an academic question. This is PhysicsForums. We're a bunch of nerds, so no one here can get a date anyway. :tongue:

 

[Astronuc]

And then they start showing up at your house at 1AM demanding to be let inside because when they called you from their car 30 minutes earlier wanting to come over you told them, no, you were sleeping. So they fly into a jealous rage and demand to be let into your home in the middle of the night looking for that guy you must be hiding.

And he was one of the saner ones.

Other guys would call me from across the street. Show up places they knew I'd be. AAARRRGGHHH!

Yikes! You've really met some weirdos. And this wasn't apparent before you gave out your number?

I hope that doesn't frighten any potential suitors away. These people were the cream of society, if I named names you be "OMG, THEM?"

I've known a few high profile people who had behavioral problems.

How about Fred Hofeinz?

Tell me about how "real life" beats online?

Well, in my case, I'm pretty much the same online as I'm in person. :uhh: I don't know if that's good or bad.

Besides - I'm mostly harmless.

 

[jim mcnamara]

It's just an academic question. This is PhysicsForums. We're a bunch of nerds, so no one here can get a date anyway.

Nah, not academics.

Pheromones. Damned biochemicals. They are the bane of humanity.

Regardless of who we are, pheromones turn us all into great blathering blobs of confusion, confliction, and choreic movement. Higher brain function ceases, if ever it was there to start with.

We're bags of chemicals :grumpy: bent on reproduction.

 

[ShawnD]

When my nephew had gotten divorced and was sick of the bar scene, he was pretty blue. I told him that he should start doing his laundry in a coin-op laundromat in our town (county seat with lots of smaller towns on the periphery), and when women were coming in the door with loads of laundry, go open the door for them. Then, as he was loading his machines, he should ask harmless things like "how much detergent do you put in these big commercial washers?" etc. If a woman was slightly interested in him, she would help him get squared away, and if she was more interested, she might strike up a conversation.

Damn that's a good idea. You could wear your tight t-shirt with super tight "look at my package" jeans from the 70s, and of course it's perfectly ok because it's laundry day

 

[turbo]

Damn that's a good idea. You could wear your tight t-shirt with super tight "look at my package" jeans from the 70s, and of course it's perfectly ok because it's laundry day

That's the spirit. The key is to choose a neutral location where you've got to waste some time. A couple of years back, I was at a tire store getting my winter tires installed/balanced, and the wait was pretty long. I had a great conversation with a very pretty civil engineer half my age who had to tell me all the details of her participation in a dry-dock project.

Hint: Don't choose the tire store - you can hit the laundromat a couple of times a week if you want, but the tire store gets expensive if you do that. I just lucked out and found a pretty, smart, and very animated young professional to talk to while we waited for our tires to be changed over. Neutral location/common interests will give you lots of opportunities to meet people without threats.

 

[rewebster]

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern. First, if you are looking for someone who is "eccentric" , you'll probably find them. Second, if you date (what was it?) millionaires, lawyers, and

These people were the cream of society, if I named names you be "OMG, THEM?"

they are going to be even in a different class of "eccentrics"----

There are and have been a lot of TV programs even, ('dirty,sexy money', for example) that deal with the odd quirks that level of society with money brings. So, maybe(?) it's something else that you're looking for mixed in that has made it hard to find that 'bear blanket in front of the fireplace' male.


I lean toward 'friendly'/respectful/'that mellowing, attracting, almost hard to describe' quality over looks, smarts, and status.


Funny, just in this last month, I got phone call from three ex's--one from over 20 years ago, one from 17 years ago, and one from 12 years ago--all just (not really, but in their words) just checking into see how I'm doing.--funny---


Anyone can look for whatever qualities they want and need in a person--I guess it just depends how long and how many times someone tries with bad results with those 'wants'.

 

[Astronuc]

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6024/dilbertsd5.jpg

10?​

 

[Evo]

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern. First, if you are looking for someone who is "eccentric" , you'll probably find them. Second, if you date (what was it?) millionaires, lawyers, and

they are going to be even in a different class of "eccentrics"----

There are and have been a lot of TV programs even, ('dirty,sexy money', for example) that deal with the odd quirks that level of society with money brings. So, maybe(?) it's something else that you're looking for mixed in that has made it hard to find that 'bear blanket in front of the fireplace' male.

I just got mixed in with that crowd when I got to town. Money sure doesn't make people normal. That's why I'm looking for nORmL men.

Anyone can look for whatever qualities they want and need in a person--I guess it just depends how long and how many times someone tries with bad results with those 'wants'.

Since I have your real e-mail address, yes, I slipped you a mickey, your e-mail account wasn't the only thing you confessed...muwahahaha. If no one else volunteers, I'm afraid you're stuck with me until Red Rum returns to unburden you. After all, he did almost become a priest. Patience of a saint, he has.

 

[Evo]

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6024/dilbertsd5.jpg

10?​

Hair's too short.

 

[Evo]

This is from a pop up poll on OKC.

On dating websites, how much would you be willing to pay for a bio-chemical test, which measures your match quality with other people? Listing prices from $10 to $200.

No option for ZERO.

Uhm, ok.