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So, who is the threat ?

  1. Jan 3, 2004 #1

    kat

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    "So, who is the threat ?"

    The following is from the Israel nuclear thread, I thought it was worthy of discussion but because it would have surely ended up being way off topic I'm using it as a starting point here....:smile:

     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 3, 2004 #2

    kat

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    I'm going to address one country at a time...but before that I would like to point out that although some Arabs, and some Arab countries are U.S. Allies..certainly to same Arabs are our allies (U.S.) would not be correct.


    I'm just going to quote one source to begin with:

    From the middle east quarterly
    This is a good article, well footnoted. It is a 2 part piece, the second part can be found
    here
     
  4. Jan 3, 2004 #3

    russ_watters

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    All I'll say for now is that its an extrordinarily complicated set of relationships. The US-Saudi one is a good example: the government doesn't particularly like us but they need our money and defense and a large number of people in the country hate us with a passion. Net result: a shaky alliance and a constant terrorism problem.
     
  5. Jan 4, 2004 #4
    do you have any idea as to why the people of saudi arabia hate us Russ?
     
  6. Jan 4, 2004 #5

    kat

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    Is this maybe a little bit off topic? I had hoped to stay focused on Israel's neighbors...you know...our "allies" :wink:
     
  7. Jan 5, 2004 #6

    russ_watters

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    Well, they get pretty pissed seeing our women without their faces covered driving hummers and carrying machine guns...
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2004
  8. Jan 6, 2004 #7
    Really good article, telling in light of the build up (in general) that has gone on, in armaments, modern technologies...it is interesting to me as it is a 'build up' that arose from the 'build up' of the 'other' side, Syria builds, in repsonce to Israel's building...now we are all in danger, from stupidity!

    No Nuke'm all!

    Who really is the threat is an excellant question, your linked article clearly proves Zargawee's statement as un-informed...hows about the rest of them?
     
  9. Jan 6, 2004 #8
    Especially the ones running the Mc American Corporations that take away High End (CEO's and the like, "High Paying") employment opportunities from the locals, local currencies undercut by stronger American Dollars, local monies (and talents?) taken "out of the country" by "Foreigners" natural resources too...those kind of things...(russ, do they really let them carry machine guns, over there, too? )
     
  10. Jan 6, 2004 #9

    russ_watters

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    And the female tank commanders and bomber pilots have even bigger guns. Penis envy in a misogynistic society can be a real b- (so to speak :wink: ).
     
  11. Jan 7, 2004 #10
    Funny(?) russ, but what of the original question? do you agree that it is a form of "Economic Imperialism" that they would wish to avoid?...(to put is 'politely')
     
  12. Jan 7, 2004 #11

    russ_watters

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    Sorry, I thought your McDonald's reference was regarding their female CEO. My response was tongue-in-cheek but serious at the same time.

    So, economic imperialism:

    We take away high end jobs from other countries? Since when? One of the biggest economic problems in the US is jobs going overseas. And since when is an undereducated local in line for a high end job anyway? This isn't an arguement I've even heard before and it makes no sense.

    Economic imperialism allegations are that we are exporting our CRAPPIEST jobs to the detriment of the locals that do the work. Its true that many of the jobs we export are the crappy ones, but thats simply because thats all the countries we are sending them to are capable of doing. India however, is getting some reasonably skilled IT jobs. In neither case is this economic imperialism, because even at $2 an hour, a button sewer in Bangledesh is doing VASTLY better than if the shirt factory weren't there. And the $10 an hour Indian computer programmer (Cal Berkeley educated, I might add) is doing vastly better than if the comptuer programming company wasn't there.

    Frankly, I get the feeling that econoimc imperialism allegations come from a lack of the acceptance of the existence of mutually beneficial economic relationship. Ie, if someone gains, someone else must lose. In the US, there is a lot of that problem - most people dislike/distrust big corporations - but most people WORK FOR big corporations! The people of the US are among the richest in the world, but if you ask individual workers, they will tell you they are being exploited. Absurd.
    What control do we have over the currency value in other countries? Heck, in most of the world, the value of the local currency is tied to/backed by the US dollar (by the government who issues the currency) in order to HELP keep it stable. Out with the "gold standard" and in with the "US dollar" standard.
    Maybe you wrote that backwards, but low value local currencies rarely leave their country of origin. The natural resources leave and hard currency (US dollars) flows IN. Thats a POSITIVE situtation for those countries and a NEGATIVE one for the US as we have a trade deficit. One of the causes of inflation is the outflow of money from the US.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2004
  13. Jan 8, 2004 #12
    Aside from the obvious holes in the arguements you attempt, this is not the topic, it is 'who is the threat'...

    That you do not see the economic factors, "Control over assets" as something that instills, within the other, a sense of some FORM of Economic Imperialism (whether it is true or NOT) that causes mis-trusts to arise...hence becoming the 'enemy' well, your oversight/blindness.

    What I find interesting in Kats original link is the obviousness of the ease (dependant upon place of point of view) with which each side blames the other, Syria being blamed for now having CBW's which arose from "Russia" (et al) supplieing them, but that was in reaction to the US(?) (western axis of power?) supplieing the Israeli's, but that second half is NOT pointed out...it is two side achieving balanced power as the "powers" had been unbalanced by the initiator of advancement in military armaments....a bit like assigning blame in the "who started the war" kinda question, each side vieing to make it appear as if they are only "re-acting" as opposed to being the initiator....begs the question Kat has posed, what, about all of the history, justifiable(?) actions of/in that history, makes these people threats now....

    P.S. If I start a company here in Canada, get my labor done in the US, make a good profit, where does that end up russ, in the US or in Canada...and do you like that idea? would you like it if every Corporation was Canadian? and all profits where taken out of the US, and kept/used exclusively in Canada....and I refused to use your local currency, forcing you to use my currency, devalues your local currency and makes it seem less valuable/worthy...perhaps, in truth, only a perception, but it is perceptions that (can) cause currency values to rise, and fall...

    As for there 'social values' last I saw on the News, there are women, right NOW, in France, Protesting to have the right to continue wearing their veils!...you are an American?, you do believe in Freedom? don't you? (or is that Freedom only for Americans???)
     
  14. Jan 8, 2004 #13

    selfAdjoint

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    I don't know where you're going with that Canadian capitalism line. Is it supposed to knock the evil US capitalists ruling the world? Hey have you heard about the outsourcng controvery in the US? Our computers are built in China and our software iw written in India. The Swiss and the Japanese own half our companies. Clark had to tell a labor crowd in New Hampshire the other day that "We can't expect some of those jobs that went overseas to ever come back". Economists like Krugman and Brad de Long worry that we can't sustain our role as Consumer to the World without the jobs and production to keep us funded. Another day older and deeper in debt. Can the US default? Could the great satan go bankrupt? Watch this space.

    And about the Moslem schoolgirls in France and their headscarves, every country draws the line between acceptible and unacceptible religious behavior in a different place. Consider Canada's treatment of the Doubokhors (sp?) or the tyranny with which the US put down Mormon polygamy.
     
  15. Jan 8, 2004 #14

    Njorl

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    The biggest threat to Israel is that the Palestinians will insist on being good citizens of a democratic Israel. They may soon outnumber the Jews living within the border. At some point, Israel will begin to look much like South Africa under apartheid. I think even the hard-liners who are not zealots recognize this. They are going for the most advantageous (to them) 2-state solution they can get.

    Njorl
     
  16. Jan 8, 2004 #15
    Every country has it's problem, just pointing out the realities that exist in/from the available perspectives, to help round out the understanding of just what exactly drives these kinds of things...trust...that kind of 'stuff', International Power Balances...
     
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