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Solar system desinger take two

  1. Mar 24, 2009 #1
    I thought I might have gotten more of a response from my last post but I think it may need to be explained more.

    It is a solar system containing a yellow star (sun) at its center and an earth like planet orbiting it.

    There re four more planets orbiting further out that have to be in some sense equal distances like a picture of an atom or similar so that an alignment can occur with the sun and earth planet in the center with the four other planets aligned at separate intervals like the face of a clock...imagine the sun and earth like the center of a clock where the hands of the clock turn from and the other four planets at the 2, 5, 8 and 10 basically...or think of an 'X' with the points of the 'X' having planets and the center being sun and earth.

    I have tried many things to imagine and visualize it myself however with my knowledge of the universe and its laws I can only make pretty pictures of what i mean rather than a working explainable model.

    Please express any interest or criticism's as I don't even know if it is possible or not.
    I look forward to working with someone on this project and i hope this further explanation entices the interested parties ;)
    Thanks in advance
    Astrosneddy
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 24, 2009 #2

    Borek

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    Try to draw it.

    If I understand you correctly, you want them all to share the orbit (ie you want them to be in the equal distance from the star). It is not going to work, such a system will be - in a long run - unstable.

    Or is it enough that they occupy such a positions once per - say - several hundred years? And they are in different distances from the star? Such a case seems much more likely.
     
  4. Mar 24, 2009 #3
    System1.JPG

    This is just a basic pic of the system

    System2.JPG

    This is an alignment from above looking down

    System3.JPG

    This is a side view

    The basic idea is that the alignment occurs only once...when it occurs it destroys the earth planet by ripping it apart...It is planned that the gravitational pull from the larger planets intersect around the earth planet and basically pulls it into spherical quarters or just destroys it...however, it would be preferable if then the remaining planets and sun continued to orbit as usual.

    I'll add another reply with a few more diagrams of what i mean in regards to the alignment/destruction

    The instability of the design may work in my favor even if the whole system is destroyed but i would have to further question you about such things as the big bang theory and what requirements would need to be in place for the system to be destroyed and then "re-grow" in the same manner as it was regardless of the amount of time it took to return to its former self...think of it perhaps as a perpetual motion system...if that helps...

    Thanks for your reply regardless....this has been an ongoing thing for several years and now the theoretic building of this system is the obstacle I've been facing for a long while now and can't progress with out it. Cheers again.
    Astrosneddy
     
  5. Mar 24, 2009 #4

    Borek

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    This ripping part doesn't make sense. And if the most important part doesn't make sense, does it make sense to make eveyrything else physically sound and viable?
     
  6. Mar 24, 2009 #5
    Grav1.JPG
    Grav2.JPG
    Grav3.JPG

    And then the system should return to picture one in normal orbit minus the earth planet
    Hope this helps
     
  7. Mar 24, 2009 #6

    Vanadium 50

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    That's not possible, I'm afraid. If the planets are close enough to do that, they would have crashed into each other long before your alignment.
     
  8. Mar 24, 2009 #7
    So the gravitational pull can't rip apart another planet...I guessed that would cause me problems...what about the alignment possibilities? The earth planet can be destroyed by other means but the alignment is still important...things like how many years it would take to align, the length of alignment and what ever other factors are of importance, fro example if any other alignments occur in the time it takes for the X alignment. Also can you explain what you mean by unstable? Do you mean the whole thing would collide with itself or that planets would slip out of alignment or something else altogether?
     
  9. Mar 24, 2009 #8
    atom.jpg

    Can a solar system take this shape? The sun obviously being center.
     
  10. Mar 24, 2009 #9

    Borek

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    Is this picture intended to be 3d with circualr orbits, or 2d with highly elliptic ones?

    I have never heard about a planetary (be it star/planets or planet/moons) system that was not flat - with all objects orbiting the main body more or less in one plane (see ecliptic plane). That will rule out first system. But then, I have never heard about many things.

    Flat system won't be stable - sooner or later planets will get close enough so that their gravitational pull will deform the orbits, anything may happen then, including one of the bodies being thrown away from the system.
     
  11. Mar 24, 2009 #10
    a 3d picture circular...just like an moving atom graphic.
     
  12. Mar 24, 2009 #11

    Borek

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    Atom grahic is about as correct, as the idea that the planet can get ripped apart... :wink:
     
  13. Mar 24, 2009 #12

    Vanadium 50

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    No system will be stable.

    If the tides are enough to pull a planet apart (and remember, it's tides that do this), the bulk field is much, much higher. It's certainly close enough to eject an object, but in fact once you get this close, you'll have a collision, not an ejection.
     
  14. Mar 24, 2009 #13
    Any suggestions on what i should do then?
    Whats my best option
     
  15. Mar 24, 2009 #14

    Vanadium 50

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    The answer is, "it's not"'.

    I think that's up to you.
     
  16. Mar 24, 2009 #15

    Nabeshin

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    From my understanding you want to rip a planet apart via gravity... Well as has been stated no stable system will do this, so, as per that thread that ended not too long ago, have a neutron star come hurtling through your system at .9c or something:
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=294122

    Doesn't have to be a collision. Tidal forces from a close encounter should do the trick. (Of course you also have to realize that the gravitational effect of a stellar-mass neutron star flying through your system is almost certainly complete destabilization)
     
  17. Mar 24, 2009 #16

    tony873004

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    It looks like Earth's orbital plane is 90 degrees from the orbital plane of the other planets. The Kozai mechanism will destroy (or prevent from forming) this system.
     
  18. Mar 24, 2009 #17
    System.JPG

    So i can basically only have a system like this where the four other planets are at equal distances on their own orbits and the only "X" alignment i can hope for would be like picture 2?

    SystemAlign2.JPG
     
  19. Mar 25, 2009 #18

    Vanadium 50

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    You're not listening.

    There is no set of stable orbits that will cause a planet to get ripped apart by gravity.
     
  20. Mar 25, 2009 #19
    Sorry, you misunderstand... The destruction of the planet doesn't matter anymore...it can't occur that way so I'm moving back to alignment...i can worry about the planet being destroyed another time...the alignment still needs to occur with as much symmetry as possible.
    That is why i was hoping to have the four other planets in two orbits rather than separated by four. In my last two pictures the four planets don't line up as symmetrically as i would like however if this is the only possibility i will have to work with it...however I was lead to understand that orbits can take many shapes and forms and if the introduction of other planets/moons/comets etc can give me a more symmetrical 'X' alignment than that is what i'm looking for.

    Any ideas?
     
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