Sorry, dear I was ovulating!

  • #101
Evo
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Aether said:
"70% of women married five years or more are having sex outside of their marriages." -- S. Hite, Women and Love, p. 856, 1987.
"89% of married women keep their affairs secret and/or are never "found out (or at least never confronted by their husbands)" -- S. Hite, Women and Love, p. 861, 1987.
"76% of married women having affairs are rather matter-of-fact about their double lives and do not feel guilty." -- S. Hite, Women and Love, p. 862, 1987.
"Men take love as a secondary factor in their lives--their careers are more important and the area they can get most admiration." -- S. Hite, Women and Love, p. 86, 1987.
"Men like to play knights rescuing the princess or saving the queens from the men whose ***** they just want a goood excuse to stomp anyway. Maybe we're just staus symbols or good-luck charms. Maybe they're into idol worship and simply are looking for someone beautiful enough to glorify." -- S. Hite, Women and Love, p. 87, 1987.
Sounds like a very biased book. I disagree with it.
 
  • #102
Aether
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Evo said:
Sounds like a very biased book. I disagree with it.
I have read it all, and I think that Shere Hite is heavily biased by feminist ideology. However, it's the best "scientific" data that I have on this subject.
 
  • #103
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you relly understood aether meant ? i got in a completly diffent way
 
  • #104
EnumaElish
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Evo was right on target when wrote "bias," as the following (lengthy) excerpt from an intro. stat. textbook attests:
A survey is sometimes used to determine the views of a well-defined group of
people. If Shere Hite’s 4500women consisted of most or all “women chief executives
of major corporations,” we would be interested in the views of the group for their own
sake. How did Hite get her women? She sent out 100,000 questionnaires to a variety
of women’s groups ranging from feminist organizations to church groups and garden
clubs.
Basically, the 4500 were just those who replied and thus form a group too illdefined
to be of any interest in itself. Were the 4500 representative of American
women in general, as Hite appeared to believe? First she sent out her questionnaires
to women’s groups. As Time stated, this strategy “means she was getting mostly one
kind of person—‘joiners’.” People who are unhappy or unsatisfied may be more likely
to be “joiners,” perhaps because they need more companionship outside of the marriage.
We call this type of problem, in which the population being sampled is an unrepresentative
subgroup of the population of interest, selection bias. An even more
important problem with the Hite study, however, is the fact that only 4.5% of those
surveyed responded. Time quoted Regina Herzog, of the University ofMichigan’s Institute
for Social Research, as saying, “Five percent could be any oddballs. We get pretty
nervous if respondents in our own surveys go under 70%.” Respondents to surveys
differ from nonrespondents in one important way: they go to the trouble of filling
out what in this case was a very long, complicated, and personal questionnaire. They
may well differ with respect to the issues under study as well. This type of problem
is called nonresponse bias. Time quoted pollster Hal Quinley as saying, “If sex was
not very important then the woman wouldn’t answer. If it was a burning issue, she
would.”
The sampling design of the Hite study was more complicated than portrayed in
our description of it to date. After the first 1500 responses, Hite made a comparison
between her respondents and the general U.S. female population and then tried to
fill the gaps to ensure a sample that was fairly representative by age, geographic location,
education levels, religion, and economic status. For example, the proportions of
Roman Catholics and Protestants in the sample were roughly the same as the proportions
in the general population. Does this make us feel happier about the results? Not
really.What matters is that we want a sample whose members are representative with
respect to their level of satisfaction with their love relationships. Every subgroup of
the population has dissatisfied members. If we are still tending to get disproportionate
numbers of dissatisfied people from each subgroup, then obtaining a sample that
is representative with respect to these other demographic variables or characteristics
has not helped us.
By drawing on other polls, the critics argued that Shere Hite’s women were not
representative. Some of the polls were conducted by reputable polling agencies while
others were conducted by magazines. For example, a Woman’s Day survey of 60,000
women and a New Woman survey of 34,000 women were quoted by Time. We have
to be careful here. Magazine and newspaper polls are sometimes readership polls in
which the survey questions are printed in the publication and interested readers send
in the completed questionnaires (self-selection). Such polls are plagued by precisely
the same problems as those of the Hite study—a population sampled that is not the
population of interest, low response rates, and atypical respondents. Time quoted
Hite as admitting she didn’t conduct a truly scientific study. “It’s 4,500 people. That’s
enough for me.” Having a large number of respondents is of no help. If the sample isn’t
representative, we are obviously no better off with a sample of 60,000 or 100,000, or
even 1 million respondents, than we are with 100.
The biases mentioned above would ensure that a certain portion of the female
population ruled themselves out of being surveyed by the method used. This group
of women could not be represented in the final sample. Clearly any sensible sampling
method must, at the very least, allow any woman from this group to have the same
chance of being selected as any woman not in the group. Applying this to every possible
group, what is needed is a random sample, namely one in which every woman
in the population has the same chance of being selected. If the randomly selected
sample was too small, then certain groups of women may not be represented simply
by chance. However, if the survey was large enough, the sample would be representative
in the sense that the makeup of the sample would reflect the makeup of the
population.
 
  • #105
Astronuc
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Thanks EnumaElish - pretty much as I expected. It would seem the population on which those statistics are based are heavily biased. I doubt one would find the women of the Southern Baptist Convention represented. :biggrin:

I agree with Evo's comments.

My wife had the book in a box in the basement. It and some other old books recently went into the garbage. :biggrin: I believe my wife got the book from a friend, who expressed some sympathy for the feminist position.

I'd have to say that the statistics seem in contrast to my wife and most women I know.

Years ago, one of my wife's friends told me I should read the book. She however has been divorced and had a string of bad relationships, so I can't really put a lot of faith in the book. :rolleyes:

Besides the statistics quoted seem to have little to do with why men aren't more romantic. I have to wonder why the statistics were mentioned in the first place. :rolleyes:
 
  • #106
It could just be a CA thing but just about every woman I have met has cheated on a significant other in one form or another at least once. Even most of the ones that said they would never do such a thing have done it. I've also met more women that seem to have an issue with being faithful. They also seem far more likely to rationalize their cheating, things like "Well we had that fight and technically we were broken up for that day." or "I was already planning on leaving him anyway."
I'm not saying men are saints but from what I have seen personally they are more often loyal than women. I think part of that is that it seems for women they tend to look at affairs as being romantic in some way. More men seem to consider intense loyalty to be romantic.
 
  • #107
Moonbear
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TheStatutoryApe said:
It could just be a CA thing but just about every woman I have met has cheated on a significant other in one form or another at least once. Even most of the ones that said they would never do such a thing have done it. I've also met more women that seem to have an issue with being faithful. They also seem far more likely to rationalize their cheating, things like "Well we had that fight and technically we were broken up for that day." or "I was already planning on leaving him anyway."
I'm not saying men are saints but from what I have seen personally they are more often loyal than women. I think part of that is that it seems for women they tend to look at affairs as being romantic in some way. More men seem to consider intense loyalty to be romantic.
Well, I guess it's balanced out by the east coasters. Over on this side of the country, I know quite a few men who have cheated on their wives (some have been caught and some haven't...oh, not to mention the men I see at conferences walking arm in arm with women who I know are not their wives), but I only can think of two women who have cheated (one is my step-brother's wife, but I don't know if I even count that since they were mutually cheating :eek:, but after they separated for a bit, they've actually worked things out and have stayed married and word has it they've both finally grown up :rolleyes:...no, I haven't talked to them in about 7 years). I do know quite a few single women who have been the willing accomplice with the men cheating on their wives though.
 
  • #108
EnumaElish
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TheStatutoryApe said:
It could just be a CA thing...
Maybe it's just you? :biggrin:
I think part of that is that it seems for women they tend to look at affairs as being romantic in some way. More men seem to consider intense loyalty to be romantic.
I read on some "classical feminist" (as opposed to pop feminist) website that men consider their "secrets" being told a more serious infraction than their female s.o. having sex with someone else. The author went on to observe that by that measure (broken trust), most men are being cheated upon frequently by females.
 
  • #109
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EnumaElish said:
Maybe it's just you? :biggrin: I read on some "classical feminist" (as opposed to pop feminist) website that men consider their "secrets" being told a more serious infraction than their female s.o. having sex with someone else.
I understand what they mean. It's extremely weird to me when a girlfriend discusses anything intimate about us with anyone else. It seems obvious to me that this is a breach of the relationship. It just gives me the feeling that they get involved in relationships with men as a way of relating to other women, the way a guy might buy a certain kind of car to be able to hang out with the car guys.
 
  • #110
Tom Mattson
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Math Is Hard said:
actually I was thinking of something more along these lines..
http://homepage.mac.com/pauljlucas/personal/men/gallery/images/bach-thumb.jpg [Broken]
[/URL]

That chick looks like a guy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #111
Moonbear
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Tom Mattson said:
That chick looks like a guy.
:rofl: *cues music* "Dude looks like a lady..."

Hmm...regarding Enuma's and Zooby's comments about sharing secrets...yeah, I certainly know plenty of women who share WAY too much about their S.O.s. :yuck: I'd be pretty pissed off too if I found out an S.O. of mine was out blabbing about that sort of stuff...and who wants to hear such things anyway?
 
  • #112
EnumaElish
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Moonbear said:
:rofl: *cues music* "Dude looks like a lady..."
Hmm...regarding Enuma's and Zooby's comments about sharing secrets...yeah, I certainly know plenty of women who share WAY too much about their S.O.s. :yuck: I'd be pretty pissed off too if I found out an S.O. of mine was out blabbing about that sort of stuff...and who wants to hear such things anyway?
I am guessing that it may be payback for making them feel like they have to conform and please. I read parts of the interview with Jane Fonda in a recent issue of the Ms magazine (that "fell onto my lap") and I thought, "hmmm...."
 

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