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South korean kidnapped

  1. Jun 20, 2004 #1
    first, the berg guy, the paul johnson, now they got a korean man, this is really getting out of control, someone has to stop these people from cutting peoples heads off and fu*kin videotaping it, (excuse my language), but being muslim/arabic myself, i really hate hearing about/seeing these things. nowhere in the quran does it say that u can kill someone and get away with it, it condemns it just as the bible does, so i have no idea the hell why they think theyre doing something good, cuz these guys are going STRAIGHT to hell...anyway, i guess the koreans arent pulling out, so heres comes another head
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 20, 2004 #2
    Yeah, I'm Muslim/Arabic too, and I think those guys are idiots.
  4. Jun 21, 2004 #3
    inform me about the curan please, i thought they could kill infidels like the bible says we can kill heathens????
  5. Jun 22, 2004 #4
    the bible says we can kill heathens??? Since when?
  6. Jun 22, 2004 #5


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    I am of an arabic decent, also; however, I am not Muslim. I have always wondered if the Koran claims you can kill an infidel. I'm actually an athiest, and have always had the statement Muslims are bad for this reason, and it becomes very tiring. Would be very nice if someone could confirm this.
  7. Jun 22, 2004 #6


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    No. I believe that killing is only allowed in warfare, self-defense, and, most vaguely, against those "making mischief in the community". I think you would have to know Arabic, specifically Arabic as it was spoken in the 8th century, to know what is meant by that last part. I suppose fanatics could always use that last bit to justify killing anyone who disagreed with them in Muslim lands, even other Muslims.

    Also, there are gradations of "infidelness". There are specific protections given in the Koran to "people of the book", the book being the bible, and "the people" being Jews and Christians. Many Moslem scholars believe they have so much in common with Jews and CHristians that they should join with them to fight against the common enemy - people like me.

  8. Jun 22, 2004 #7


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    Psalms, Chapter 2

    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
    Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
    Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
    Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
    I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
    Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
    Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
    Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

    EDIT : If this is too much of a digression from this thread, please ignore/remove it.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2004
  9. Jun 22, 2004 #8
    Perhaps those assuming that the Quran gives Muslims the permission to kill "infidels" are referring to Surah 9. If so, I'd gladly explain it to you, and any other verse if you wish.
  10. Jun 22, 2004 #9


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    I'd be most interested in hearing the true meaning of the verse, you are referring to as Surah 9.
  11. Jun 22, 2004 #10
    Surah 9 speaks of the treaty between Muslims and Meccans. That treaty was set forth to allow the Muslims to pray in Mecca without being objected by the Meccans. However, this treaty only applies to a few months, known as "al-Ashhor al-Haraam", or the forbidden months. You should also note that the Muslims and Meccans were already at war, a war that the Meccans started.

    During the forbidden months, Muslims were not allowed to attack Meccans or wage war unless they were attacked first, meaning they were only allowed to defend themselves. However, when the months have passed, Muslims were allowed to seek out the Meccans and "kill them where [they] found them". In other words, they were allowed to continue their battles and do to the the Meccans what they did to them, without exceeding limits.

    This specific verse is obviously misinterpreted by many Muslims, especially those who dub themselves "Mujahideen". They seem to have some weird understanding that this verse gives them the right to kill non-believers, when Islam clearly forbids killing innocent people unjustly ([6:151], [5:32] and [17:33]), regardless of their religion (109:1-6).

    Verse in question:
    [9:5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
  12. Jun 22, 2004 #11


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    You mean by being a witch, a disobediant child, wearing clothes made of two or more different fabrics, being homosexual, being a rape victim, sowing two crops in the same field, etc, etc, etc?

    Leviticus isn't vague in any way, shape or form. It gives explicit instructions for what "infractions" deserve death.
  13. Jun 22, 2004 #12
    here goes another one


    sad, just sad.... i really dont support this and most of the muslim community doesent, these guys think they're doing something right......to hell they are, they say "alahu akbar" when cutting off someones head like they did to nick berg, ur supposed to say that when u slaughter a goat, or sheep on eid, not when u take the life of a human being. i know they are trying to make a point, but godamn, make it in a different way
  14. Jun 22, 2004 #13


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    decibel and devious:
    Thank you both so much for your posts. I was desperately hoping there were Muslims out there who abhorred this behavior. I knew you had to be out there, but I'd not heard anything from any of you! :smile: The fanatics that are so full of hate sure do make life difficult for loving people who wish to live their religions the way they want to. I truly appreciate hearing your thoughts on these events.
  15. Jun 23, 2004 #14
    there are many many other muslims that think the same way
  16. Jun 23, 2004 #15
    There are many christians who think it's a great idea to roam around killing people. And nutters of other faiths too.
  17. Jun 24, 2004 #16


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    I'm glad. And I'm happy to finally meet some of you - even if it's only on the internet. We don't have many mosques in rural Oregon (where I live). :smile:

    And Adam - I agree completely. I do (unfortunately) know more than a few of them. It's sickening. It's a part of religion I'll never understand.
  18. Jun 24, 2004 #17
    It's the part of religion where jerks manipulate what was written or preached, to benefit themselves.

    For instance, the part in Christianity (I think), where it claims that if you pray for forgiveness, you will get it.

    A lot of Christians I know you use as an excuse to break the commandments (stealing, lying).
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