Space access through pumping fuel or reaction mass up a long pipeline.

  • Thread starter RGClark
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enigma

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russ_watters said:
That's something I dealth with, but didn't explain: the space shuttle orbits at about 100 miles, iirc. 60 miles will get you an X-prize or a pair of astronaut's wings, but its not really worth anything.
Double those numbers is a better approximation, but the problem with the orbital speed is the same regardless. You don't just "park" in orbit. You need to be going close to 8 km/sec. The "formula" I had to use to break in the Juniors in a design class I participated in was this:

UP != Orbit

FAST = Orbit!

Enigma's the astro, so I'm sure he can tell you, but I think it takes a similar (smaller?) amount of energy to get to the moon.
Good question. It's of the same order of magnitude... of that I'm sure.

The main problem with this idea is the following:

You can't have an object with suborbital speed and just suspend it in place using rockets. The fuel requirements for something like that are absolutely astronomical. For pete's sake, just to get to orbit once with the best fuels possible, you need to have over 9kg of fuel for every kg you put up there. Helecopters and planes take advantage of aerodynamics and are made of some of the lightest materials known to man, and they STILL can only operate for a few hours before refueling.

You're proposing "hanging" a multi-kiloton pipe up from nothing. I'm sorry. There isn't enough fuel in the whole world for that idea to be feasable.
 
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Russ, my post was factual and dispassionate. Read Clausius' posts and decide if that is the case for him. Do think again about who should "cut it out". I will not have my name sullied just so that a certain poster's feelings don't get hurt.

As for your comment about variations in g, the equation presented appeared to want to take into account the tiniest details, yet forgot about this. If you're going to present an equation with a good deal of accuracy, at least be consistent with the errors introduced by the terms in the equation.

Some constants are still missing from his equation.

I will not be baited into wasting my time debating with Clausius; suffice to say his personal attacks and reactions speak for themselves.
 

FredGarvin

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RGClark said:
Your two objections were that pumps do not exist to get to the required height and that you could not get the pipeline up to the required altitude.
My point is pumps DO exist that can pump water or (more likely gas) up to 100 km (keep in mind I'm only going to LEO.)
Secondly, the key aspect of this proposal is that the pipeline is raised into the air by the thrust from the vents placed all along the length of the pipeline.
In regards to the materials required, there are carbon fibers already being using in aerospace applications that have a tensile strength of 1,000,000 psi:
Bob Clark
The pumps may have the theoretical head pressure, but not the flow required. Again, please learn about this difference.

What exactly do you plan to have exhasting from these vents? Air? What will be driving this thruster flow?

What do you plan on piping? What liquid or gas?
 

DaveC426913

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Clausius2 said:
The final answer which closes this thread is:

Why the folks of NASA, who are very much intelligent than any of us, do not realised about this new stuff?

Answer: something cannot work in all of this, or it costs too much.
Or the more general answer: there is no point in anyone except NASA exploring new concepts, because if it could be done they'd've thought of it.

It's a silly argument.


While RGClark's idea might be fanciful and tenuous in its principles, there is nothing wrong with him raising it. If you don't think it's worthy of discussion, don't particuipate. No need to pollute it by saying so.
 

enigma

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Unfortunately, I'm going to have to close the thread.

Tempers are too high.
 

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