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Special Thread for Jeff/Eigenguy Stuff

  1. Feb 8, 2004 #1


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    Personal attacks on others, whether you dont like their opinions or for some reason, are off-topic in the Thiemann thread. This is a special thread for Eigenguy to say whatever he wants without trashing the discussion of Thiemann's paper or some other thread. Dragging the Thiemann thread (which was a good one) off topic into the ad hominem bushes only makes sense if you feel threatened by that thread.

    BTW I did not find the discussion of Thiemann's paper conclusive either way----people seemed to change their minds, shift their ground, and no one view ultimately prevailed. If you want to try to draw logical conclusions from the posts at PF in that thread, then show us. The burden is on you to interpret it. I did not find it conclusive and I dont have to justify that. It's my perception. My guess is that Urs Schreiber doesnt think it was conclusive either (though how would I know, maybe he does.) But even tho unconclusive, I think it was a great discussion!

    Furthermore I think Thiemann's paper will probably turn out to be an important one in stimulating certain directions of research. Its conclusions are tentative and TT explicitly says they are conditional on further work. One gauge of the paper's potential importance is the intense discussion it elicited here at PF.

    However some people think I should be attacked for my role, which was basically to start the thread. Or maybe I should be attacked because I did not participate enough. Or maybe because I didnt find the discussion conclusive, and said so.

    And the vituperation has been spilling over on at least one other person, selfAdjoint. So unless a mentor is going to step in and erase the Eigenguy attacks, I suppose we need a place to air the issues. These are issues mainly of courtesy I guess. Intellectual integrity and accuracy too perhaps.

    I will start the ball rolling by pasting in the most recent Eigenguy off-topic post.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2004
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  3. Feb 8, 2004 #2


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    here's an especially neat short one, before I quote the most recent.
    Got quite a kick out of it.

    -----quote from eigenguy-----

    Marcus, I now have no doubt that you are an unbelievable phony and the fact that you have that physics of the year award thing even if it is just for fun disgraces this site for people who unike you are in rational and knowledgable. SelfAdjoint isn't a phoney, but I think he's out of his depth here as well. Someoen should start a new thread to let people know what actually happened with thomas and jacques distler.
    ------end quote-----

    Unfortunately neither Thomas Thiemann nor Jacques Distler were posting at PF and I didnt see their argument with each other. I was talking about the thread here at PF about TT's paper.

    Here is the most recent off-topic post I'm aware of, there may be more:

    --------quote from eigenguy-------

    Originally posted by selfAdjoint
    You may believe your last three posts are fair comments deserving responses, but they look to me a lot like intemperate ad hominem slurs. Any comment on that?

    You could say exactly the same thing about the exchanges at the string coffee table, so this is complete baloney. Even if I was rude, my questions are valid and are owed an answer. In a similar position, I would have simply backed up what I said by answering the questions directly and ignored the rudeness, that is, if I had the answers, of course.

    I think you know quite well selfadjoint that there is no way anyone could frame the basic question I asked marcus so that he wouldn't find some way to weasle out of it. He did the same thing the one and only other time I was here. At that time I asked why LQG was not taken seriously by physicists. You should review those first exchanges between marcus and me and tell me who was rude. Just search under my name.

    Anyway, the fact that marcus would put you in a position were you felt you had to fight his batttles for him should make you wonder about his character, but not his physics because I think you know he pretends to know much more than he actually does, a fact which while monitoring the thread I saw demonstrated quite clearly by the exchanges between marcus and both lubos and urs, after which marcus left the thread and came back only after he thought the "coast was clear". The only reason marcus always turns to you is that he knows he can trust you not to challenge him in a way that would show him up. I think the choice you've made to help marcus keep the wool over everyone's eyes is questionable to say the least. Specifically, after urs made a tremendous effort to explain why the LQG-string is senseless, and it is senseless, marcus makes a completely false pronouncement on what actually happened, summarily dismissing by implication what one of the worlds leading physicists said. Talk about arrogance!

    I'm not surprised by the fact that people like jeff, urs and lubos motl don't participate very much around here. You guys are so ignorant that you don't even understand that you don't understand. For example, I notice that when it comes to complicated physics, you aren't able to actually put your finger on the relevant issue in a paper. Instead you just go through the methodology figuring that this way, at least what your saying is probably not wrong.

    I think just as in the physics community, we need more people here to be tough and keep the membership honest about the physics and I don't think that anyone can rely on you to do that.
    -----------------end quote------------
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2004
  4. Feb 9, 2004 #3


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    Let's keep the thread together


    You did not ask a physics question.

    I said I found the PF Thiemann thread's discussion "inconclusive"
    and you challenged me to justfy that.

    that was my perception of the discussion
    great discussion, lots of energy, people changing their minds or so it seemed to me,
    I liked the discussion---I dont have to justify or explain saying that I liked it and my liking it is not a "straightforward physics question"

    And I certainly didnt find it conclusive---I dont have to justify or explain saying that I didnt find it conclusive and that it is not a "straightforward physics question" either.

    You should apologize for pretending that I had made a claim about physics which you were challenging.

    You should also apologize for misquoting me. You took something selfAdjoint said and put quotes around it and attributed it to me. This was, I am sorry to say, disingenuous.

    selfAdjoint was agreeing with the general inconclusiveness of the discussion and said something like "we'll have to wait to hear from the bigger guns" I guess he meant more authoritative people like Ashtekar and Nicolai---people with a bit more gravitas.
    So when you started attacking me for making what I think was a legitimate comment about the conversation (not physics) you quoted me as saying that about the bigger guns.

    How can I rely on your account of what they said over at Distler's
    messageboard, if that is what "string coffee table is"? If you cant even use quotation with integrity here at PF.

    Please shape up and please dont be so strident and argumentative.
    The conversation goes better and is more informative without
    all the animosity.
  5. Feb 14, 2004 #4
    The thread isn't a bad idea, but I think your best bet is just ignoring them/him, or whatever. You'll find there's always somebody trying to bring you down.

    Paden Roder
  6. Feb 14, 2004 #5
    marcus, jeff and eigenguy are clearly not the same person. please stop implying that they are.
  7. Feb 14, 2004 #6


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    At your suggestion I have edited out any suggestion
    which I was able to find in this thread,
    that they are the same individual.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2004
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