Personal attacks on others, whether you dont like their opinions or for some reason, are off-topic in the Thiemann thread. This is a special thread for Eigenguy to say whatever he wants without trashing the discussion of Thiemann's paper or some other thread. Dragging the Thiemann thread (which was a good one) off topic into the ad hominem bushes only makes sense if you feel threatened by that thread. BTW I did not find the discussion of Thiemann's paper conclusive either way----people seemed to change their minds, shift their ground, and no one view ultimately prevailed. If you want to try to draw logical conclusions from the posts at PF in that thread, then show us. The burden is on you to interpret it. I did not find it conclusive and I dont have to justify that. It's my perception. My guess is that Urs Schreiber doesnt think it was conclusive either (though how would I know, maybe he does.) But even tho unconclusive, I think it was a great discussion! Furthermore I think Thiemann's paper will probably turn out to be an important one in stimulating certain directions of research. Its conclusions are tentative and TT explicitly says they are conditional on further work. One gauge of the paper's potential importance is the intense discussion it elicited here at PF. However some people think I should be attacked for my role, which was basically to start the thread. Or maybe I should be attacked because I did not participate enough. Or maybe because I didnt find the discussion conclusive, and said so. And the vituperation has been spilling over on at least one other person, selfAdjoint. So unless a mentor is going to step in and erase the Eigenguy attacks, I suppose we need a place to air the issues. These are issues mainly of courtesy I guess. Intellectual integrity and accuracy too perhaps. I will start the ball rolling by pasting in the most recent Eigenguy off-topic post.