Solving Unexpected Integral Problem with Bessel Functions

In summary, The conversation discusses a specific integral and the possible forms it can take, such as πiH10(ib|a|) or 2K0(b|a|), as well as the references and methods used to calculate it. The conversation also touches on the issue of singularity in the complex plane and the assumption of k>0.
  • #1
sukharef
54
0
Hello!
I've got unexpected problems with this very integral.
f551f55ddf15.jpg

I've looked through "gradshteyn and ryzhik" and found similar, but not the same. So the result, as i think, will be Bessel functions or so. Wolfram Mathematica could not calculate it, so i thought you would help with it, because it does not seem to be very difficult.

Thank you in advance!
 
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  • #2
I'm interested to hear what you are working on.
I have dealt with that specific integral myself and found a reference showing that it is equivalent to
##\pi \mathrm{i} H_0^1 ( \mathrm{i} b |a| ) ## or ## 2K_0 (b |a| ).##
The constants may be off...but I am pretty sure about the result.
Duran, Muga, and Nedelec use a transformation in "The Helmholtz equation in a locally perturbed half-plane with passive boundary." IMA Jrnl. of Appl. Math. 2006.
Which fits the forms you will find in Gradshteyn and Ryzhik.
This method was used by Van and Wood in, "A Time-Domain Finite Element Method for Helmholtz Equations." Jrnl. of Comp. Phys. 2002.
I hope this is helpful...I could not actually do the transformations myself, so I had to rely on some smart folks who had done it before me.
 
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  • #3
RUber said:
I'm interested to hear what you are working on.
I have dealt with that specific integral myself and found a reference showing that it is equivalent to
##\pi \mathrm{i} H_0^1 ( \mathrm{i} b |a| ) ## or ## 2K_0 (b |a| ).##
The constants may be off...but I am pretty sure about the result.
Duran, Muga, and Nedelec use a transformation in "The Helmholtz equation in a locally perturbed half-plane with passive boundary." IMA Jrnl. of Appl. Math. 2006.
Which fits the forms you will find in Gradshteyn and Ryzhik.
This method was used by Van and Wood in, "A Time-Domain Finite Element Method for Helmholtz Equations." Jrnl. of Comp. Phys. 2002.
I hope this is helpful...I could not actually do the transformations myself, so I had to rely on some smart folks who had done it before me.

Thank you!
I'm trying to calculate radiation arises when a particle moves along the shaped surface.
I've looked through the articles and i want to know what transformation do you exactly mean, specific polar coordinates?
I guess if the result would be πiH10(ib|a|) or 2K0(b|a|) Wolf.Mathematica would calculate it in terms of these functions. Maybe it's not that simple.
 
  • #4
The explanation of the parametrization is in the Duran article.
upload_2015-8-19_2-31-37.png
 
  • #5
RUber said:
The explanation of the parametrization is in the Duran article.
View attachment 87518
are you sure about the title of the article? i can not find that piece that you are referring to.
besides the integral (10) has a singularity on Re axis, not on I am like mine one has.
 
  • #6
sukharef said:
are you sure about the title of the article? i can not find that piece that you are referring to.
besides the integral (10) has a singularity on Re axis, not on I am like mine one has.

I think the paper in Ref. 5 here:

http://cib.epfl.ch/Rappaz60/programme/JeanClaudeNedelec.pdf

and

http://imamat.oxfordjournals.org/content/71/6/853.abstract

is the paper referred to by RUber above, I believe.
 
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  • #7
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  • #8
In your integral, |a| holds the same place as |x_2 - y_2| and your b^2 = -k^2, or b = ik, and (x_1 - y_1) = 1.
r would be ##\sqrt{a^2 + 1}## k= -ib.
So, would ## iH_0^1(ib\sqrt{a^2 + 1})## work?
I might be glossing over the assumption that k>0 that was made.

I think you are right...this conversion might not fit your problem.
You mentioned the singularity in the complex plane. Is b complex?
 
  • #9
RUber said:
In your integral, |a| holds the same place as |x_2 - y_2| and your b^2 = -k^2, or b = ik, and (x_1 - y_1) = 1.
r would be ##\sqrt{a^2 + 1}## k= -ib.
So, would ## iH_0^1(ib\sqrt{a^2 + 1})## work?
I might be glossing over the assumption that k>0 that was made.

I think you are right...this conversion might not fit your problem.
You mentioned the singularity in the complex plane. Is b complex?
no, b and a are real. i meant that k = +-ib.
 
  • #10
RUber said:
In your integral, |a| holds the same place as |x_2 - y_2| and your b^2 = -k^2, or b = ik, and (x_1 - y_1) = 1.
r would be ##\sqrt{a^2 + 1}## k= -ib.
So, would ## iH_0^1(ib\sqrt{a^2 + 1})## work?
I might be glossing over the assumption that k>0 that was made.

I think you are right...this conversion might not fit your problem.
You mentioned the singularity in the complex plane. Is b complex?
i think 2K0() is more appropriate here, because in particular case of a=0, the result will be 2K0(b)
 

1. What are Bessel functions and how are they used in solving unexpected integral problems?

Bessel functions are a family of special functions that were first introduced by the mathematician Daniel Bernoulli in the 18th century. They are used to solve differential equations that arise in many areas of science, particularly in physics and engineering. Bessel functions have a wide range of applications, including solving unexpected integral problems, due to their unique properties and ability to accurately model a variety of physical phenomena.

2. Can Bessel functions be solved analytically or numerically?

Bessel functions can be solved both analytically and numerically. In some cases, they can be expressed in closed form using special functions such as hypergeometric or confluent hypergeometric functions. However, in more complex scenarios, numerical methods such as approximation or integration techniques may be needed to solve the equations involving Bessel functions.

3. What are the key properties of Bessel functions that make them useful in solving unexpected integral problems?

One of the key properties of Bessel functions is their orthogonality, which means that they are mathematically independent from each other. This makes them a powerful tool for solving a wide range of problems involving different types of integrals. Additionally, Bessel functions are known for their ability to accurately model oscillatory behavior, making them particularly useful in problems that involve periodic phenomena.

4. Are there any limitations to using Bessel functions in solving unexpected integral problems?

Like any mathematical tool, Bessel functions have their limitations. They may not be suitable for all types of functions, and in some cases, alternative methods may be more efficient or accurate. Additionally, the complexity of the equations involving Bessel functions may increase significantly as the order of the function increases, making them more difficult to solve numerically.

5. How can Bessel functions be applied to real-world problems?

Bessel functions have a wide range of applications in various fields of science and engineering. They can be used to model physical phenomena such as heat transfer, electromagnetic waves, and vibration patterns. Bessel functions are also commonly used in signal processing, image analysis, and data compression. Additionally, they have applications in finance, economics, and other areas of mathematics and statistics.

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