Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Spin and Charge

  1. Jan 4, 2013 #1
    One may have noticed from my recent posts that my head has been spinning lately, or more specifically, I’ve had spin on the mind. It is a frustratingly puzzling piece of the picture I’m trying to wrap my head around.

    Here’s the latest mind bender I’ve been grappling with. Although separate fundamental properties of subatomic particles, Spin and Charge do appear to have a spurious relationship with one another. Specifically, like charges do not like to be around one another, and like spins also do not like to be around one another. Similarly, opposite charges like being around each other, and opposite spins like being around each other.

    I’m not an expert here, but from my understanding the main difference between the two phenomena is that the spin property does not have its counterpart to the EM field and the Coulomb force that charge has. However, I do think the spurious relationship is notable…that is, both properties, spin (via the Pauili exclusion principle) and charge, play equally crucial roles in maintaining the structure of the atom and, as a result, the structure of matter itself. Moreover, each do so in a qualitatively similar manner by which the binary property of a “state” of the particle must be paired with its counter-state in order to achieve a stable system.

    My question is has there been any effort into drawing a link between these two phenomenon based on the argument I just made?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 4, 2013 #2
    @DiracPool
    The similarity is rather superficial: The repulsion/attraction between charges is due to the em-field (or the exchange of virtual photons if you want to take that point of view), whereas athe repulsion of similar psin states is due to the Pauli exclusion principle (or to the properties of the electron field in QFT point of view). IMO, There is no real analogy here besides the similarity you noted.
     
  4. Jan 4, 2013 #3
    Not sure here,but spin of electromagnetic field can be deduced on pure theoretical basis like here
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=654329
    but same is not true for charge?
     
  5. Jan 4, 2013 #4
    @andrien
    Not sure what you mean - there is no direct connection between charge and spin - charged particles can have any spin and particles with spin can have any charge (or none).
    And, btw, the property that like spins "repel" is of course wrong for bosons, where like spins "attract" (take the words "repel" and attract" with a huge heap of salt, though).
     
  6. Jan 4, 2013 #5
    There could be a link via string theory, where the shapes and characteristics of the additional dimensions establish degrees of freedom that determine the properties [charge,spin,mass,etc] of strings [particles]. This is analogous to fixing the ends of a violin string and so determine with tension the resonant standing waves of that string.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
  7. Jan 4, 2013 #6
    There is a Dirac spinor that has a spin degree of freedom and a second very similar degree of freedom that corresponds to particle/antiparticle distinction, that you can identify with charge, at least for an electron.
     
  8. Jan 4, 2013 #7
    I brought some extra salt shakers to the discussion for just that reason, and I was of course referring to 1/2 spin particles only, not bosons. But that leads to the derivative question relating to the Pauli exclusion principle (PEP) which is, "what are the parameters of affinity and dis-affinity of 1/2 spin particles?" I mean, all I've ever learned is that 1/2 spin particles of like spin cannot occupy the same energy state/orbital, whereas opposit spin particles can. Is that as far as it goes?

    The obvious question from here is how far must like spin particles remain from each other not to violate PEP? Similarly, how close can opposite spin patrticles get. I image this has something to do with hyperfine spectra, but is there any sort of gradedness to the above questions, or are electrons either "locked" into some specific geometry in these orbitals that dissallows a range of freedom for them to roam. Or...does the whole mess get lost in a quantum probablity electron cloud where the foundational uncertainty renders an analysis of the question moot? We simply do not know the intrinsic dynamics of two opposite spin particles within an orbital and what constrains that behavior other than the PEP allows for them to share that same orbital/energy state and doesn't allow like spin particles to do the same.
     
  9. Jan 5, 2013 #8
    May be some misinterpretation.I was saying that spin is a property which can be deduced theoretically,the same is not true for charge.It does not have direct connection.
    where did you got that?
    @Diracpool
    Not sure what are you asking but quantization for spin half integers and integers are different.There are physical requirements which are imposed like existence of a minimum energy state for fermions
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook