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News Stalin Monuments

  1. Jan 19, 2005 #1
    Good God, can people really forget twenty million deaths so quickly? Russians, what's wrong with you?!?
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=2&u=/nm/russia_stalin_dc [Broken] :mad: :mad: :mad:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 19, 2005 #2
    It's interesting, the more I study WW2 russian front, the more the entire affair seems like a giant game played between two uneducated children - except that every foolish or just plain stupid mistake one makes cost hundreds of thousands of lives. Stalin could have saved vast amounts of recources had he been even marginally sane, a little bit educated, or slightly trusting of the men under his command whose job it was to win wars. The same goes for Hitler.

    I'm with you Andromeda. Why anyone would erect a monument to Stalin is beyond me.
  4. Jan 19, 2005 #3
    Haven't you guys heard about what Putin is doing lately? It's blatently Stalinistic; bassically controling the press, jailing dissidents and political opponents (I don't think he's had anyone murdered yet, but he pretty much controls the media as well, so who would even know?), deciding it was best that he appoint members of the legislature and local governors, having the state take over large parts of the oil industry and other industries.

    It's funny that him erecting statues of his idol gets attention, but the fact that he's dissolving the free press, the free market, free elections and freedom of speech doesn't seem to bother too many people.
  5. Jan 19, 2005 #4

    Putin is doing what is right for Russia.Did you checked lately what is Bush doing in USA ? and abroad.
  6. Jan 19, 2005 #5

    Who else played this game of yours ? not Russia and Germany alone.
    USA and UK due to stupidity of their leaders lost thousands of soldiers,not to mention killing hundreds of thousands civilians in bombing raids on Germany and nuking innocent Japanese.
    You better study harder! and don't post this garbage of yours !
  7. Jan 19, 2005 #6
    How do you call jailing political opponents and essentially crushing democracy and going back to Stalinist policies what's right for Russia? Do you think Stalin was right for Russia?

    And yeah, I have checked lately what Bush is doing in the USA and abroad, he's doing lots of different things. Which of these things that he's doing are you referring to?
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2005
  8. Jan 19, 2005 #7
    tumor, please don't tell me you think that the acts of the Russians and Germans during the WWII were on par with those of the US/ allied forces. War is hell, both sides made mistakes, and no one will dispute it but there is an unquestionable difference between democracy and a dictator. Particularly when that dictator goes around killing his own people for his own satanic reasons!
  9. Jan 19, 2005 #8
    How would you call droping two nuclear bombs on defensless cities,I call this war crime on par with crimes of Stalin and Hitler.
    And by the way, US, British and French greedy politics after WW1 gave birth to nationalistic movement of Hitler in Germany.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2005
  10. Jan 19, 2005 #9
    You better watch your own backyard while Bush and Co is screwing America. Russia will be fine.

    I'm refering to Bush attacking two nations who were no danger to the USA at all.Were you sleeping over last 2 years or what ?
  11. Jan 19, 2005 #10


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    Staff: Mentor

    Do you really want to compare kill ratios? Hitler and Stalin each killed an order of magnitude more people than all the allies put together. Stalin killed something like 25 million of his own people for reasons of economics!!

    Simply put, those two are among the most evil and murderous men the world has ever seen. They are not comparable to Bush (didn't you already try that and fail...?).
    Thats an uttter perversion of history. Nationalism was the driving force in international politics for centuries before WWI and it should't be surprising (nor was it wrong) to want to punish Germany for starting WWI. What IS unique is the change made after WWII (first suggested by Wilson after WWI) which led to the downfall of nationalism. Nationalism pre-dated the US, but the US is responsible for its downfall.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2005
  12. Jan 19, 2005 #11
    Care to elaborate on why a developing Stalinistic dictatorship in Russia will lead to Russia being fine? Last time I checked it lead to mass murder, mass starvation, slave-labor camps, rampant poverty and a generally mismanaged mess of an empire.

    And guess what: because I'm against Stalin, it does NOT mean I'm pro Bush. I'm very much opposed to George Bush's policies and decisions, including the decision to become so buddy-buddy with Russia and make no fuss about the fact that Putin will become the next Stalin if allowed to do so.

    There are actually people in this world who are not Bush supporters, and at the same time, not Communists. Both Communists and Bush supporters seem to have trouble understanding this fact...

    George Bush has done alot of things, I didn't want to jump to any conclusions about what you were referring to, since you only said "Did you checked lately what is Bush doing in USA ? and abroad."

    George Bush sucks balls, and the fact that he isn't protesting Putin's actions, and infact is doing some of the same things, and is responsible for some of Putin's actions makes it even worse.

    Fortunately, in America, we have a political system that wouldn't easily allow someone like Bush to act like Putin, I just hope George Bush doesn't go further to dismantle this system. It's funny how you're defending Putin and attacking Bush, when Bush is so fond of Putin and there are so many parallells to be drawn between the two men.
  13. Jan 19, 2005 #12
    Why are you so concerned with Russia all of sudden ? maybe because you watched last night on TV propaganda program on Evil Putin ?
    Why not start picking on China and its leaders who killed twice or 10 times more of its own citizens ? Oh yes, China is our friend right now, better not to jeopardize trade with Chinese on which USA so depends.
  14. Jan 19, 2005 #13
    No, I didn't watch a program on Russia last night, American television media rarely mentions anything about Russia, partially (I believe) because Bush is such great buddies with Putin that we need to keep Russia appearing not so bad, and the media is complicent with this notion. I'm so concerned about Russia because: A) Putin is turning into Stalin, and B) There's a goddamned thread about the Russian Government's (which essentially means Vladamir Putin's) pro-stalinism. I reiterate; why are you so Pro-Putin and seemingly Pro-Stalin?

    I'm not a fan of the Chinese government, and if there were a thread about the chinese government, I'd voice my dissaproval as well. But how about this: next time someone starts a thread about how China, I'll chime in and talk about it with you, but for now, let's talk about Russia and why you're defnding Putin's consolidation of power into himself and crushing of democracy.
  15. Jan 19, 2005 #14
    What makes you think I suddenly care about Russia "all of a sudden?" Do you know me or have any indication as to what I follow in politics? No you don't.
    Anyway, is it so very horrible that people start paying attention right now if this becomes a way for them to start paying attention to the world around them? Or is it better to just wallow in apathy because hey, everyone's guilty of killing people. It is not a good thing that China killed more people then Stalin but that does not make Stalin a good person: he still killed twenty million people. This is not a small amount to be glossed over like you seem to think it is, and merely pointing the finger at someone else does not make it go away.
  16. Jan 19, 2005 #15
    Just like Bush then.

    Tumor, is there any country you don't hate?
  17. Jan 19, 2005 #16
    the only independent asian justice at the tokyo trial, an indian, said that basically the only crimes in the pacific that compared to the crimes of the nazis were the dropping of the two atom bombs. that was radhabinod pal, who used the existing international law of the day, rather than make things up as he went along. (like the allies did) prime minister tojo asked during the trial why his crimes were any worse than bombing hiroshima & nagasaki, but the trial was stopped and his comment was sticken from the official record. that's not what i say, that's the new york times in 1999. you can find reams of documentation of other evil stuff the US has done, both at home and abroad. this includes stuff like testing chemical/biological weapons on its own people (& canadians too), providing materials encouragement & manuals etc for torture, stealing the stasi's (east germany's intelligence agency) top-secret archives & not giving them back, etc etc. the US has done plenty of stuff that compares with the stuff the soviet union had done since WWII. if you sum up what the US has done since WWII it's pretty appalling. i haven't even mentioned vietnam...

    cheney, wolfowitz, rumsfeld, libby, etc aren't nationalists? that's news to me

    in fact,
    -- Imperial Brain Trust, p. 136 quoting memorandum E-B34, July 24, 1941, Council on Foreign Relations War-Peace Studies

    sounds like nazi talk to me...
  18. Jan 19, 2005 #17
    In essence the cold war was almost a partnership between the two superpowers using the crimes of the other to frighten their own populations into obedience. The USSR died and the USA survived, which one won?
  19. Jan 20, 2005 #18


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    Gold Member

    Nationalism dead ... only if it were so. Punishing a losing nation after it has lost a war is equivalent to seeding a long distrust and the next conflict (note the usage of the word NATION), in one way or another.
  20. Jan 20, 2005 #19
    Yes, I commented on those things too a while back.
  21. Jan 20, 2005 #20
    Actually, US losses were small compared to german and russian losses. There were some tactical mistakes, but nothing on the order of Hitler's siege of stalingrad or Stalin's refusal to believe Hitler would invade.

    You better study harder! and don't post this garbage of yours !
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