# Starting out again(?)

Mr. Robin Parsons
"Starting out.............again(?)"

So apparently some of the people herein (1? zoob) think that all I have to do is "get a job" which tells me that some of you haven't a clue what it is like to "start back up", from the bottom.

Having arrived in Calgary with $35.00 in my pocket, the clothes on my back, a tent, backpack with change of pants, top(2), shorts and underwear, (no socks!) bout as much as I could carry on a bicycle, I started back up from the bottom, at 43 years of age so's I probably have a better idea of what the problems are, then any of you. Hence my curiosity is expressed herein inasmuch as I would like to know just how simple/complex you think it is, to "start back" out. BTW what I did for my country, and it's resultant use around the World, the apparent savings, to the Canadian peoples, of Approx$40,000,000.00 dollars, the redeeming of the legislation from the pit that is was 'perhaps' about to be thrown into, again, hence the assitance in the protection of the children of Canada, are all rendered meaningless by the current Government, so don't wonder 'why' I would rather "do nothing" then give anything to them ever again.

(By extension so am I!!, {Rendered meaningless/worthless/useless} But No, I do NOT feel that way, so don't be stupid, it is simply an acceptance of the clearly expressed belief and practise of/by others)

P.S. if you would wish to start, well, I presently live in a tent, have no money, a bicycle, (and I am 47 now!) and basically nothing else......so, GO for IT!!!

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Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I read your post several times, but I still don't understand it fully. You willingly chose to start over from scratch?

Mr. Robin Parsons
Originally posted by Monique
I read your post several times, but I still don't understand it fully. You willingly chose to start over from scratch?
Where do you get that from??, can you not tell, I have no choice about it!

Some tent... with a PC and internet access!

Mr. Robin Parsons
Some tent... with a PC and internet access!
Humm, didn't start this one for 'others' to be making fun of me for this, if you haven't got something to contribute, please don't bother!!, thanks!

Andy
You had to expect that Mr Robin Parsons, remember that there are alot of new members using this site that dont have a clue about your predicament so expect a few questions to be asked, remember what me and entropy where like.

Mr. Robin Parsons
Originally posted by Andy
You had to expect that Mr Robin Parsons, remember that there are alot of new members using this site that dont have a clue about your predicament so expect a few questions to be asked, remember what me and entropy where like.

Andy
Well you'll be gald to know that i have, although i am still intrigued.

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Where do you get that from??, can you not tell, I have no choice about it!
No, I couldn't tell. Some people DO make the choice to live like you have described. I don't know the circumstances by which you were forced, so I am in no position to comment :)

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Humm, didn't start this one for 'others' to be making fun of me for this, if you haven't got something to contribute, please don't bother!!, thanks!

Artman
Mr. Robin Parsons, I have followed several of your posts and I find you to be intelligent and well spoken (written). I don't wish to be offensive, but I also sense that you are defensive and perhaps have a case of paranoia.

I agree that in your present condition, you would not be employable. Even though you are obviously intelligent, the question of why you haven't been employed will haunt you.

If you don't mind some constructive criticism, I would recommend you divorce yourself from all thoughts of government (seriously) and see a therapist to talk out your situation (there seem to be some deep rooted problems there). Find yourself some help, such as someone willing to get you some decent clothing, or a place to stay (everyone needs a hand of some sort from time to time).

I don't imagine it is easy. I can only imagine that it would be very hard.

Mr. Robin Parsons
Originally posted by Artman
Mr. Robin Parsons, I have followed several of your posts and I find you to be intelligent and well spoken (written). I don't wish to be offensive, but I also sense that you are defensive and perhaps have a case of paranoia.

I agree that in your present condition, you would not be employable. Even though you are obviously intelligent, the question of why you haven't been employed will haunt you.

If you don't mind some constructive criticism, I would recommend you divorce yourself from all thoughts of government (seriously) and see a therapist to talk out your situation (there seem to be some deep rooted problems there). Find yourself some help, such as someone willing to get you some decent clothing, or a place to stay (everyone needs a hand of some sort from time to time).

I don't imagine it is easy. I can only imagine that it would be very hard.
WOW you ever off base, that and it is quite clear you don't understand the situation (thats OK!) and are NOT addressing the question posed, why?

P.S. You constructive critism, isn't, you would want for me to "see a therapist", why?? do they need to learn something from me?? cause I can assure you they would NOT be able to help me, a lawyer, perhaps, but definitely NOT a therapist, OYE!

Artman
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
...and are NOT addressing the question posed, why?

As I understand it, this is the question posed:

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
...Hence my curiosity is expressed herein inasmuch as I would like to know just how simple/complex you think it is, to "start back" out.
[/B]

I said " I agree that in your present condition, you would not be employable. Even though you are obviously intelligent, the question of why you haven't been employed will haunt you."

and

"I don't imagine it is easy. I can only imagine that it would be very hard."

I don't really know your situation, all I know is what I can sense from your posts. No offense intended. I could indeed be way off-base.

Mr. Robin Parsons
Originally posted by Artman
I said " I agree that in your present condition, you would not be employable. Even though you are obviously intelligent, the question of why you haven't been employed will haunt you."
"Not employable" is relative to certain conditions I need to meet for any employer, the "question of why.....haunting me" is a joke, at best.... it is Not at all!

I know quite well, by God's grace, the 'why' and 'who' of my current situation. (most of you don't! OK!)

It is NOT stated anywhere that "I am NOT employable" I asked what do you think I need to go through to re-achieve employment, what does it take, to start out, from the bottom, at 47, with no money, and no home, and little clothing, no food, no help.........

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Very true, without a house, no social security, without a house, no insurance, without a house or insurance, no job. Without money, no house.

Artman
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
"Not employable" is relative to certain conditions I need to meet for any employer, the "question of why.....haunting me" is a joke, at best.... it is Not at all!

I know quite well, by God's grace, the 'why' and 'who' of my current situation. (most of you don't! OK!)

It is NOT stated anywhere that "I am NOT employable" I asked what do you think I need to go through to re-achieve employment, what does it take, to start out, from the bottom, at 47, with no money, and no home, and little clothing, no food, no help.........

You aren't seeing my point. The thing that a 47 year old man needs most to get a job, IS a job. Your lack of employment is haunting your search for employment (not you specifically). Yes I know this is unfair, but most people get their employees by stealing them from their competition.

Employers aren't looking to give someone a break, they are looking for someone to help their business. If you have been employed, making money for someone, can demonstrate that you can make money for your potential employer, and can do the job better than any other candidate, then you have a chance of getting that job.

I've tried to keep up with Parson's saga, but everytime I get into it I simply get more confused.

For instance, I do not understand why a person who posseses the knowledge you have cannot find someone to help/support his plans.

I've lived on my own before, without a job and whatnot. I had a car however, fast car, so I didn't worry about insurance. I did odd end jobs, making anywhere from $20-100 a week. It is hard not being able to lay your head down in the same place, or atleast a comfortable bed every night. And if you have been royally screwed by the government as you've described in the past, I can understand not wanting to work for a legit company that requires you to pay taxes to the people who put you in this predicament. If I was you, I'd head south. I could probably get you a job on a siding crew if you're interested, and know how/can learn. Somehow, I doubt this will interest you much. Plus, its got to be getting cold this time of year. With said possesions, do you not find it difficult to remain comfortable(temp wize) in the winter? Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member Social Services in Canada? Mr Parsons: I asked what do you think I need to go through to re-achieve employment, what does it take, to start out, from the bottom, at 47, with no money, and no home, and little clothing, no food, no help......... I am ignorant about what social services are available for someone in your situation in Canada, but in other countries with which I have some familiarity, there is a wide range of social support available. This may include: - central/state/local government assistance for the unemployed, the uninsured, the homeless - private charity groups, of many different kinds. If you have access to the internet, finding the names of such institutions, their roles, locations, contact details, etc should be quite easy. From these compassionate, experienced and professional people you should be able to get good, specific, concrete advice on how to become re-employed, given your background, capabilities, desires, and circumstances. Becoming re-employed can be looked at as just another problem to be solved - what do you have? what do you want to do? what can you do? what are you prepared to do? Then, on the other side, who is offering employment (of a kind that meets - to some extent - the answers to the earlier questions)? what is your competition like (others who might seek the same work)? what distinctive characteristics do you have that make you more attractive to an employer than your competition? how can you develop some of these quickly and easily? etc. As usual in problem solving apply Pareto (aka the 80/20 rule). Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member I am not sure about your situation, things would be greatly simplified with friends/family/aqueantances (sp?) giving you an address. Without an address you are nobody. How is one supposed to get social support without having an address for them to send it to? Mr. Robin Parsons Originally posted by Artman You aren't seeing my point. The thing that a 47 year old man needs most to get a job, IS a job. Your lack of employment is haunting your search for employment (not you specifically). Yes I know this is unfair, but most people get their employees by stealing them from their competition. Employers aren't looking to give someone a break, they are looking for someone to help their business. If you have been employed, making money for someone, can demonstrate that you can make money for your potential employer, and can do the job better than any other candidate, then you have a chance of getting that job. My apologies for my abruptness, you do have a very clear point inasmuch as what you express is what most potential emloyers would see in me, little if anything, and that is probably the most common perception. (even if wrong!) But that is a part of it, if I cannot prove, adequately, that I have done what I have tried to 'prove' I have done, then how can I prove to anyone that I have the ability to generate value.....it is the absence of "Laurels" (Public accreditations) in my life that is what is the problem. But this digresses into social studies, the original question is what does it take to get back out from this starting point? Getting a Job is a small part of that, if you think otherwise, you are mistaken. Mr. Robin Parsons Originally posted by Nereid I am ignorant about what social services are available for someone in your situation in Canada, but in other countries with which I have some familiarity, there is a wide range of social support available. This may include: - central/state/local government assistance for the unemployed, the uninsured, the homeless - private charity groups, of many different kinds. If you have access to the internet, finding the names of such institutions, their roles, locations, contact details, etc should be quite easy. From these compassionate, experienced and professional people you should be able to get good, specific, concrete advice on how to become re-employed, given your background, capabilities, desires, and circumstances. Becoming re-employed can be looked at as just another problem to be solved - what do you have? what do you want to do? what can you do? what are you prepared to do? Then, on the other side, who is offering employment (of a kind that meets - to some extent - the answers to the earlier questions)? what is your competition like (others who might seek the same work)? what distinctive characteristics do you have that make you more attractive to an employer than your competition? how can you develop some of these quickly and easily? etc. As usual in problem solving apply Pareto (aka the 80/20 rule). This can be addressed, but I have to go for my meal now, soup Kitchens dictate my agenda for the day, so........ Mr. Robin Parsons Try this........ So what we have are two options, one is to go on welfare, the other get a job. Getting a job entails the needs of washing myself, my clothing, (of which, I haven't the right kinds, or amounts, for either, office, or labor work, labor requiring special things like "steel toed boots", something like a waiter requires black shoes, minimal stuff, + etc.) getting to, and from work, (without developing a sweat as cycling does cause to arise) and the most important of all of the needs, where the heck do I now eat, because, the scheduling of the soup kitchens is arranged as to attempt to ensure that working people are NOT taking advantage (misusing) of them. At best, it is a two week wait till the first cheque, at that point I now have the earnings of a maximum one weeks time, first and last months rent is required as deposit in Kingston so I do NOT have enough to acquire housing, even if I can get ten or twelve bucks an hour (snicker snicker, not likely to happen as they know I want to leave the country so they will attempt to ensure that I get as little as possible for wages.....don't believe that, it is the "Why" I have gotten no accreditation/(public)Laurels) the most I would have after forty hours of work @$12.00 is $480.00 less taxes, ~ 30% so about$350.00 clear/net (Yes I know it isn't exactly 30%, don't care, either, as it is close enough for what we need to see!) and I have needed to feed myself, clothe myself, and wash, without facilities for any of that.

And I now need to go through, how many more weeks? before I can accumulate enough money to be able to pay "first and last" on an apartment, which, here in Kingston, the Average rent is about $525.00/mo.................. There is lots more I could tell you but, I suspect you might be able to figure it out for yourselves. Option one "go on Welfare" (state assistance) been there, went like this, after giving them enough personal information to have satisfied the Stazi, they agree to give you monthly support of$520.00 per month, of that $325.00 goes to your rent so you will not be given that money unless you have already acquired a rental, have a signed lease. So they will give you the remaining$195.00/mo as that is the sum total of monies that they estimate it takes to live for a month.During that time you MUST do minimum of 30 hrs. per week of job searching, again filling out paperwork as to prove you have done enough paperwork to satisfy the Stazi, using the $195.00 for whatever you need like food, bus fare, and everything/anything else. My receipt of welfare lasted all of two and a half months as during the third month my worker told me (on the phone) that if I didn't get an apartment by the end of the month I was to be cut off, (That's illegal BTW, but done on the phone, I didn't have my handy tape recorder on me for that one, so no ability to "prove it" legally) me, I simply didn't even bother handing in the paperwork for that month and accepted the loss of the clearly ensnaring system that Welfare seems to present. So, any suggestions? Questions? Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member Become a street artist, no taxes involved :) Not sure what kind of talents you have, you could try setting up philosophy sessions or something at a local market.. there was one famous philosopher that actually did that.. *thinking* ..Socrates! You are a free man, you should be able to read up at local libraries. In Amsterdam we actually have quite a lot of street artists, some need the money, others hold respectable jobs and probably earn lots of money. They just like to express themselves and brighten someones day. There is this one guy who I really like, he seems to be standing there every few days.. a business man, in a suit, running, his tie is waving behind his back by the aircurrent of his speed, he is pointing out his hand as though to grab someones attention, maybe to hold the tram for him. The only thing, he stands there like a statue. Perfectly still, vivid expression on his face, no blinking, atachè case in his hand, tie waving suspended in the air behind his back, in the middle of the busiest tourist street of Amsterdam, outside of the central trainstation that leads to the major shopping streets, thousand of people passing him by, trying to get somewhere, while he, he just stands there. Artman Along the lines that Monique just said, have you thought about writing a book about your experiences? I've read several of your posts. You can write, and your experiences on the street could make for interesting reading. J.K. Rowling, the woman who wrote "Harry Potter" was divorced and living on public assistance when she outlined the entire H.P. series. I know that her story is the exception, not the rule, but writing would be a productive use of your time until some other avenue opens for you. Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member And you DO know the earnings of Stephen King.. I think it is an excellent idea, the same as Socrates on the marketplace, only a tat more modern.. I wonder how many markets there are in Canada anyway? Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member I think you just sold your first few books <- me! artman -> Mr. Robin Parsons Artman, Monique Thanks for the support, I already wrote a "book" years back. That's another story altogether. Humm, why not just try this as an "exercize in understanding" as opposed to actually finding me, personally, solutions. The understanding being what people have to go through sometimes, through no fault of there own. Oh Yes, just to keep one part perfectly clear, I mention the Supreme Court of Canada, the Justices thereof were/are the only ones who had/have treated me with the respect of acknowledgment, so to be sure there is no "Derrogation of Repution" towards the Court, there is NONE intended, un-intended, meant, implied, tacit, or to be assumed, as it simply isn't there! They remain to me, as they started out with me, Faultless Thanks! Artman Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons Humm, why not just try this as an "exercize in understanding" as opposed to actually finding me, personally, solutions. The understanding being what people have to go through sometimes, through no fault of there own. Understood. (But it still sounds like your life would make for interesting reading. Very intriquing little snips coming through in your posts.) Mr. Robin Parsons Originally posted by Artman (SNIP) (But it still sounds like your life would make for interesting reading. Very intriquing little snips coming through in your posts.) (SNoP) AHHHHhhhhh, if you only knew........... There is so much I 'cannot tell', (At least not yet) and there is so much (more) I can, YEOW a ToE too! Andy What was this thread about anyway? Mr. Robin Parsons Originally posted by Andy What was this thread about anyway? Hummm, I suspect (but it is only a suspicion) that if you look at the t-i-t-l-e or read the "initial posting", you should be able to figure it out for yourself! Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons Humm, why not just try this as an "exercize in understanding" as opposed to actually finding me, personally, solutions. The understanding being what people have to go through sometimes, through no fault of there own. I can understand, I've seen children wrongfully being taken away from parents by the government and locked up in institutions, so called 'child protection'. Even the best lawyer won't be able to argue against such institutions. Mr. Robin Parsons Lets try this one............ So, apparently some people don't get this writing, it is about starting back up from the bottom of the ladder, at 47 years of age, with nothing to assist to that end. When This arose in Calgary, for the first time in my life, it worked out simply, inasmuch as the organization in Calgary was well set up to deal with homeless people, and how to re-establish them in society, if they wanted that. This means that, firstly, the immediate needs (Services) were met, inasmuch as they gave us a place to sleep, a place to eat, there were laundry machines that you could use (free) for washing your clothes, and there were shower facilities for washing yourself. I was bussed to a warehouse, every evening, (my choice) to sleep on a mat, in that warehouse, with ~200 other people. You needed to supply your own bed linens, I had a sleeping bag, so it was simple enough for me. Next was work, they had a "Work Office" at the Downtown drop in centre (where I ate) that ran by lottery (pick a number to await any possibility of incoming work, I got # 1 on my first try) so you could be on a list for work, if available. Calgary was booming a bit while I was there so they had lots of work, and I was sent out first day, to be paid daily (supposedly) by my employer. They, the downtown drop in centre, would also assist with little things like sandwiches for your lunch if they had the extra food available. Within eleven (11) days I had enough money to acquire a room in a rooming house. The person I worked for was helpful, in little ways, but it was even then clear enough, it was in his own self interest that he acted. This is a short explanation of how I started back out again in Calgary, and it belies several realities of the experience, the obviousness of the fact of the feelings of Violence, and Fear, that permeated the Drop in Centre, palpable feelings. Calgary is a city of 800,000 + people with a reported (at that time) homeless population of roughly 4000 or about 0.5% (that is a "disgustingly stated" Good figure, good as it is only 0.5%, disgusting if you are one of those 0.5%) and has established the requisite services to deal with the people who are the homeless. Here in Kingston the situation is somewhat different, as the base population size is smaller, the number of homeless is smaller, and there are more people dealing with "low incomes" as problem, then the problems that I got to see in Calgary. Here there is no permanent shelter to live in, a winter one opens up on Nov 17 to allow us to get "In from the Cold" and that will permit me to stay there from 8 pm to 8 am, showers and laundry facilities are available there, and sometime even food! There are two other shelter options, but both of them permit only a five night stay (without justification) and they require "sixty clear days" passage before they will let you back in, again. There is so much more, WOW! Mr. Robin Parsons It was easier in Calgary to secure lodgings as the amount of money that I needed was ~$150.00 as that would pay the rent on a room, for two weeks, which was what the owner wanted to start out.

Here in Kingston with a housing rental market that has a < 1% vacancy rate, finding a place is a bit more of a challenge.

While trying on Welfare I had to use the "Intent to Rent form" provided by welfare, and that its the 'whistle word' for the landlords telling them that you are a recipient of welfare, hence all of what they have learned over the years about welfare tenants kicks in. Some said things like, "Well, we'll want a $200.00 dollar deposit to fill out those forms" (They know you only get$195.00) others you can hear the change in attitude, over the phone, when you use say you have the "Intent to rent.." and many other things like that.

But it is not totally against the landlords that they behave in the ways that they do. Having been one myself who has had to clean rooms, after people have left, having heard about some of the ones around here, the mountains of garbage left, and the needles, makes cleaning it a "Bio hazard", so how could you fault the "Once (perhaps more) burned"?

And it isn't as if the Sensation of 'violence and fear' that I felt in the Calgary center, is the faulting of anyone, other then the very nature, and structure, of sociality, as many of the people who end up needing to use these type of services, are people who have just been released from prisions.

If you buy that line about how you will "do your time and pay for your crime", WOW, it ain't like that, you come out of prison, if you don't have assistance, you is gonna wait till it gets there, with no money, no place to live, no food, assistance, nothing if you cannot figure it out really fast, and society is stacked against you.

No, I have never been in prison, but I have spent a fair bit of time in the presence of many a person who has, and gotten to see, and somewhat feel, what society does towards these people when they get out...it isn't pretty, and they are really, generally, (if they don't either get or find the assistance they need) pushed back towards the only thing that ever worked for them, life of crime, and the Circuit of imprisoning. (heard that it's best to get a winter sentance)

Very educational experiances these, and more, any questions? answers?

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Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
One time, about two years ago I saw a documentary at the Detroit Institute of Arts, Film Theater.

It was about homeless people in New York living in the underground subway system, there was one guy filming the whole thing. I think he actually had the habit of becoming 'homeless' once in a while to appreciate the things he had going for him.

Anyway, so he knew the places where homeless people hang out so he decided to make a film about it.

I was amazed by the people living there, there was one guy who had lost his family and his house in a fire.. without money he ended up on the street. Throughout the documentary this was not told, you got to know the person, very cheerfull and mischievous in a good way, resourcefull, he made his own house from scrap down in abandoned subway tunnels, where he complained about people stealing his 'posessions', merely makeshift objects. Finally when he start telling the story of how he became homeless (reluctantly) a world opened up: homeless people needn't be criminals and anyone can easily end up the same way. I believe this guy actually had a good job and lost it after a depression due to the fire.

The issue also came up that people would commit petty theft and make sure they were caught before winter started, a small crime with a sentence long enough to last the winter. But this one guy was released early, since the law inforcement knew the purposs of the crime..