Calculating STEVE's Height from Two Photos 370km Apart

In summary, two photographers were able to capture a STEVE event from different locations and are now trying to calculate its height using the information from both pictures. STEVE is a purplish colored skyglow event that is usually seen while auroras are present, but is unrelated to them. The acronym STEVE stands for Strong Thermal Emission Velocity Enhancement. One photographer enhanced a picture to show the purplish color, but another photographer believes it to be a normal aurora. The original photographer has confirmed that this is indeed a STEVE event and it was observed for almost an hour by multiple people.
  • #1
astroscout
62
4
A friend of mine was able to photograph STEVE and later found out that another photographer also captured the same event. One captured it from the south and the other from the north. He has asked me if using the the information from both locations, can the height of STEVE be calculated? The two photographers were about 370 km apart. Here is a drawing he sent me via Facebook.

paulms
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
  • #2
Link busted.
You can't link directly to Facebook.

Download the image to your drive, (right-click: 'open image in new tab', go to tab, right click: 'save image as...')
then upload it here as a file.Yes. You could calculate its height if you can get an accurate idea of the angle above the horizon from both pictures. That'll be easier said than done.

The next question is: will you get a more accurate altitude than that understood to be STEVE's normal.

According to Wiki, that's about 280mi.
 
  • #3
I tried but all I get with the image button is to paste a link. I see no option for selecting a file from my PC. Am I missing something?
 
  • #4
astroscout said:
I tried but all I get with the image button is to paste a link. I see no option for selecting a file from my PC. Am I missing something?
Not on the toolbar. Bottom of message window: [UPLOAD], next to [POST REPLY].
 
  • #5
Got it . Thanx.
 

Attachments

  • steve_drawing.jpg
    steve_drawing.jpg
    20.8 KB · Views: 441
  • #6
Yes. As described. That's how you'd calculate it.

Those "known angles" oughtta be tricky tho.

(I thought you were going to upload the actual pics... :frown: )
 
  • Like
Likes TachyonLord
  • #7
I just contacted my friend and he will send them and I will post them here. The other photographer has not responded to his message yet so it could be a while Here is a link to his youtube video of STEVE.

 
  • #8
What's a STEVE?
astroscout said:
I just contacted my friend
Oh, your buddy. Got it.

(It's a good idea to define your acronyms, unless everbody in the target forum should know what it means.) :smile:
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters and BCHC
  • #9
berkeman...STEVE is a purplish colored skyglow event that is seen usually while auroras are present but they are unrelated. There is still a lot of research to be done though.
 
  • #10
astroscout said:
berkeman...STEVE is a purplish colored skyglow event that is seen usually while auroras are present but they are unrelated. There is still a lot of research to be done though.
Interesting. What does the acronym STEVE stand for?
 
  • #11
STEVE = Strong Thermal Emission Velocity Enhancement
 
  • Like
Likes Klystron
  • #12
There's something even berkeman doesn't know?
:cries with relief:

(intended to evoke a berkemanian smirk)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes berkeman, BillTre and sophiecentaur
  • #13
Here is a screen capture of STEVE taken from the video at youtube.I enhanced it a bit to show the purplish color. This was taken by Paul Smith in Grassland, Alberta in Canada. He will use Stellarium to figure out the angle from his location.
 

Attachments

  • steve.jpg
    steve.jpg
    33.4 KB · Views: 338
  • #14
astroscout said:
Here is a screen capture of STEVE taken from the video at youtube.I enhanced it a bit to show the purplish color. This was taken by Paul Smith in Grassland, Alberta in Canada. He will use Stellarium to figure out the angle from his location.
ummm... that's the picket fence style aurora
STEVE is usually a single band, like a streamer across the sky

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_(atmospheric_phenomenon)
 
  • #15
I could be wrong about what I enhanced as being STEVE. I'll check with the photographer and will get back to you guys on this.
 
  • #16
I just checked with the photographer and the purple colored picket fence is indeed STEVE. I guess from some locations it will be seen as a single band and in others as an arc. I'm no expert so I will have to accept any other suggestions as to whether this is a STEVE event or not. I am going by the purple color and maybe the photographer is also.
 
  • #17
Here is another picture of the event from the same photographer. He says that the photos seen on the web are when STEVE is beneath. The one he captured was way north of STEVE. He also stated that his coordinates were 54.937806 -112.510886 and the other photographers was approx 49.709387 -112.866389.
 

Attachments

  • steve_way_north.jpg
    steve_way_north.jpg
    52.6 KB · Views: 307
  • #18
I just sent the photographer a link to this thread and I have advised him to sign up as a member of this forum and to answer any other questions you might have.
 
  • #19
astroscout said:
I just checked with the photographer and the purple colored picket fence is indeed STEVE. I guess from some locations it will be seen as a single band and in others as an arc. I'm no expert so I will have to accept any other suggestions as to whether this is a STEVE event or not. I am going by the purple color and maybe the photographer is also.

I have been observing aurora for 50 years ... I would be really surprised if it is a STEVE ... I have seen and photo'ed a number
of them over the years back in New Zealand, long before digital cams

Here's a scanned 1980's photo of mine from Dunedin, New Zealand
this arc went almost from horizon to horizon right overhead

upload_2018-12-19_17-44-6.png
Up to a few years ago, we all ( worldwide) were calling these things proton arcs ... It's only a couple of years ago that
the name change to STEVE was made when the truer nature of the arcs were better understood

I am 99.99% certain that SETVE's do not produce green picket fence type of displays ... that is just one form of normal aurora
And you need to be aware that purple in an aurora is very common

another couple from my NZ collection

upload_2018-12-19_17-51-8.png


upload_2018-12-19_17-50-46.png


Dave
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-12-19_17-44-6.png
    upload_2018-12-19_17-44-6.png
    104.3 KB · Views: 731
  • upload_2018-12-19_17-50-46.png
    upload_2018-12-19_17-50-46.png
    172.8 KB · Views: 763
  • upload_2018-12-19_17-51-8.png
    upload_2018-12-19_17-51-8.png
    79.3 KB · Views: 748
  • #20
Hello all. I am the original photographer of the Steve event and have lots of experience photographing aurora. I'm part of an online community called Alberta aurora chasers. The admin of this group is Chris Ratzlaff , he originally named the airglow band Steve and is very active in the citizen science community.This is indeed a Steve event that was observed for almost one hour by multiple people early morning April 10th 2018 over Alberta Canada. Sar arcs are a separate phenomena altogether. Steve events ( the purple/white ribbon) can sometimes be accompanied by the green picket fence lines which may originate from the same process as typical aurora vs Steve which is thought to be ionic drift. If there are any further questions about steve or this capture I would be more than happy to help any way I can. I thought it would be ground breaking and really interesting if the height / thickness of the band, and the size of the pickets could be determined from observations from multiple viewpoints. Thanks for any help
 
  • Like
Likes Nik_2213
  • #21
I should add . The green picket fence features are magnetically aligned substructures, thought to be produced by particle precipitation ( like typical aurora) . But they are exclusively observed accompanying Steve events
 
  • #22
Paul m Smith said:
But they are exclusively observed accompanying Steve events
That I have to very strongly disagree with !

They are seen very regularly as part of typical auroral displays when there is absolutely no sign of a STEVE event
 
  • #23
I'm sorry, but I am very well versed in aurora and vertical picket fence aurora is ONLY captured with STEVE events. There is literally no documented evidence of the contrary whereas there are hundreds of captures of picket fence aurora with STEVE. I have come here for help with a question and not to get uneducated responses. Please , I only ask for help with the question, I am not here to argue against invalid responses
 
  • #24
I am working with another photographer to get an image with GPS coordinates and timestamp. I will be able to post a diagram to better illustrate the question. As a side note , these images and the video I captured have been requested and commented on by Elizabeth MacDonald who is a program scientist specializing in aurora and STEVE at NASA Goddard. It is a STEVE, without a doubt and indeed picket fence aurora ONLY occur during STEVE events. I have photographed aurora over hundreds of evenings and the picket fence is only there when STEVE is
 
  • #25
Paul m Smith said:
It is a STEVE, without a doubt and indeed picket fence aurora ONLY occur during STEVE events. I have photographed aurora over hundreds of evenings and the picket fence is only there when STEVE is

Are these STEVEs always easily visible alongside the picket fence, or is there sometimes a reason the STEVE isn't visible? I only ask because I found several photos on google images that appear to show a picket fence aurora but no STEVE. Here's an example:

127821.jpg


Perhaps the STEVE is the glow to the upper right of the aurora?
 

Attachments

  • 127821.jpg
    127821.jpg
    38.5 KB · Views: 741
  • #26
Paul m Smith said:
I'm sorry, but I am very well versed in aurora
likewise ... since 1960 and you ??

I have seen dozens of aurora with picket fence displays and many photos from other people with no STEVE present
 
  • #27
Drakkith said:
Are these STEVEs always easily visible alongside the picket fence, or is there sometimes a reason the STEVE isn't visible? I only ask because I found several photos on google images that appear to show a picket fence aurora but no STEVE. Here's an example:

View attachment 236055

Perhaps the STEVE is the glow to the upper right of the aurora?
Thank you for proving my point. STEVE is right there in that picture above the pickets
 
  • #28
davenn said:
likewise ... since 1960 and you ??

I have seen dozens of aurora with picket fence displays and many photos from other people with no STEVE present
You are not looking hard enough. STEVE will always be there , whether faint or out of frame
 
  • #29
davenn said:
likewise ... since 1960 and you ??

I have seen dozens of aurora with picket fence displays and many photos from other people with no STEVE present
I just told you the facts coming from the mouth of NASA scientists and you a disagreeing? Please only comment if you are contributing to the question. I will respectfully ignore all other posts otherwise. I strongly urge you to research before you comment, the information is out there if you wish to be educated
 
  • #30
Paul m Smith said:
I just told you the facts coming from the mouth of NASA scientists and you a disagreeing? Please only comment if you are contributing to the question. I will respectfully ignore all other posts otherwise.

Don't take offense from Davenn. We have no way of immediately knowing whether your claim is true, and personal experience is hard to trump without access to a reliable and verifiable source of information on the topic.
 
  • #31
Drakkith said:
Don't take offense from Davenn. We have no way of immediately knowing whether your claim is true, and personal experience is hard to trump without access to a reliable and verifiable source of information on the topic.
Thanks, I understand. But there is a lot of reliable and verifiable information out there. Most of my learning is from the experts like Eric Donavan and Elizabeth MacDonald (both with NASA) with whom I interact via the Alberta Aurora Chaser facebook group. I cannot link information directly from there. I don't take offense to Davenn 's comments , but it is frustrating to face resistance from people who don't care to research.. I will get to the point and post the diagram when I can. My question will be more apparent then.
 
  • #32
Paul m Smith said:
Thanks, I understand. But there is a lot of reliable and verifiable information out there.

Such information is much more difficult to find than you would imagine. Especially for many PF users who don't consider anything short of a textbook or a peer-reviewed paper reliable. A quick browse of the first fifty or so google and arxiv hits turned up nothing for me regarding whether or not STEVE always accompanies a picket fence aurora or not. So what information there may be out there isn't particularly easy to find. One thing I noticed is that this appears to have been seriously investigated only recently (around March of this year), which means that there is unlikely to be very much reliable information at all.

If you want to change peoples' minds, I suggest finding and providing links to reliable sources instead of telling people to "do some research".
 
  • #34
Please guys...Lets focus on what is needed to calculate the height of the purple arc. If he were to get the angle using stellarium, can we calculate the height or do we need the info from the second photographer?
 
  • #35
Gonna need that second observation... and hopefully a third one to get at least a vague idea of the error band.
 
<h2>1. How accurate is the method of calculating STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart?</h2><p>The method of calculating STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart is considered to be quite accurate, with a margin of error of approximately 10-15%. However, the accuracy can vary depending on factors such as the quality of the photos and the angle at which they were taken.</p><h2>2. What equipment is needed to calculate STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart?</h2><p>To calculate STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart, you will need a camera with a high-resolution lens, a tripod, and a measuring tool such as a ruler or a protractor. It is also recommended to have a GPS device to accurately measure the distance between the two photos.</p><h2>3. Can this method be used to calculate the height of other atmospheric phenomena?</h2><p>Yes, this method can be used to calculate the height of other atmospheric phenomena such as auroras, thunderstorms, and clouds. However, the accuracy may vary depending on the type of phenomenon and the distance between the two photos.</p><h2>4. How does the distance between the two photos affect the accuracy of the calculation?</h2><p>The distance between the two photos is a crucial factor in the accuracy of the calculation. The farther apart the photos are, the more accurate the calculation will be. However, if the distance is too great, it may be difficult to accurately measure the angle of the phenomenon.</p><h2>5. Are there any alternative methods for calculating STEVE's height?</h2><p>Yes, there are alternative methods for calculating STEVE's height, such as using satellite images or ground-based measurements. However, these methods may not be as accurate as the method of calculating from two photos 370km apart.</p>

1. How accurate is the method of calculating STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart?

The method of calculating STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart is considered to be quite accurate, with a margin of error of approximately 10-15%. However, the accuracy can vary depending on factors such as the quality of the photos and the angle at which they were taken.

2. What equipment is needed to calculate STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart?

To calculate STEVE's height from two photos 370km apart, you will need a camera with a high-resolution lens, a tripod, and a measuring tool such as a ruler or a protractor. It is also recommended to have a GPS device to accurately measure the distance between the two photos.

3. Can this method be used to calculate the height of other atmospheric phenomena?

Yes, this method can be used to calculate the height of other atmospheric phenomena such as auroras, thunderstorms, and clouds. However, the accuracy may vary depending on the type of phenomenon and the distance between the two photos.

4. How does the distance between the two photos affect the accuracy of the calculation?

The distance between the two photos is a crucial factor in the accuracy of the calculation. The farther apart the photos are, the more accurate the calculation will be. However, if the distance is too great, it may be difficult to accurately measure the angle of the phenomenon.

5. Are there any alternative methods for calculating STEVE's height?

Yes, there are alternative methods for calculating STEVE's height, such as using satellite images or ground-based measurements. However, these methods may not be as accurate as the method of calculating from two photos 370km apart.

Similar threads

  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
Replies
14
Views
343
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • Precalculus Mathematics Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
11
Views
8K
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
  • General Math
Replies
9
Views
15K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • General Discussion
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • General Discussion
Replies
4
Views
1K
Back
Top