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Steven Hawking / MKaku. Who's right about Black Holes?

  1. Jul 27, 2004 #1

    Does Prof. Steven Hawking's revised Theory of Black Holes rule out the existence of parallel universes? What about the Two Big Bang Theory by Dr. Raj Baldev, what implications does this theory have for M Theory.
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  3. Jul 28, 2004 #2


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    I think that the two big bang theory, if not a crank theory itself, is being promoted by cranks. I don't say TBBT is definitely not crank, I haven't gone into it in detail.
  4. Jul 28, 2004 #3
    The trouble with parallel universes is that if they were real then we would be aware of existing in more than one.A man or woman in one universe can change with time and still be the same person in the same universe.Somebody slightly different from me in a different universe at the same time would still be me but I would not be aware of the other universe.Parallel universe just do not exist.I think a lot of theorists turned to many worlds and parallel universes just because the problem s of physics got hard to solve and they couldn't find a way of solving them.Many theorists say that the mathematical framework of physics is 200 yearsold and not up to the job of solving the outstanding problems of physics.But the old physics maths has served us well and
    it might just be the case that the maths is good enough but it isn't being applied or interpreted correctly.I blame Bohr and Einstein for the mess physics is in today:
    Bohr for the Copenhagen interpretation and Einstein for failing to replace this idea despite not believing in it!
  5. Jul 28, 2004 #4
    Mr Hawking has contradicted reality itself on issues regarding creation and the nature of reality in the past. You would not know what he contradicted unless you already understood it. How do you know the difference between a crank and that which is not if you do not understand? You don't and you won't and you never will untill you understand. If the entire planet says theory 1 out of 3 what do you have? Mutual agreement on an unknown.
  6. Jul 28, 2004 #5

    but you see- this could be the case even without "parallel" universes- and perception would be the same as only the most probable and causally logical quantum jumps would seem to occur- and it's all you so you would never know that your pattern is constantly being destroyed/created in infinite places-

    consider an eternal/infinite universe [such as posited in infinite inflation ]: were all finite patterns MUST exist in unlimited quantity throught the space- [therefore infinite earths exactly like this one and infinite ones slightly different to commpletely diffferent]- and given the nature of consciousness as a continuous modification of pattern in a substrate of interchangeble matter- then exact quantum states which exist elsewhere would actually be direct breanchings of a world-line- and not simply identical nodes impossibly distant- a "person' walking across a room would be directly proportional to a person's pattern exactly continued somewhere/somewhen else of arbitryary distance/time [eqivalent to quantum teloportation]- unless you have a funeral every time you drop a deuce- the matter and location that your patterns emboddy are irrelavent to the pattern as long as it exists somewhere/somewhen- and in an infinite universe any finite pattern exists in infinite places in spacetime- this is a reality becasue you continue wherever a mechanism allows for your pattern to continue- the most common mechanism for the persistence of a pattern is basic mechanics- the ordinary continuation of the matter you embody- another less likely mechanism would be a guided and intentionaly teleportation of you quantum state- but there are other mechanisms which have no limitations as to space or time- such as random/chaotic complex events or advanced computation capible of genrating states as complex as you or a world- and an infinte universe provides that such infathomably rare and unlikely mechanisms like this must exist in unlimited extent!

    this provides some intersesting thoughts on the nature of "death"- considering that consciousness is a process encoded in matter- if the local matter is dissilusioned- it follows that a continuation of the same process would continue in all the infinite places/times where the same quantum state exists - a local sessation of a process would cause a "jump" and infinite multiplication of infinite branches as probibilty no lionger dictates that the process continues locally- although even when a process continues locally there would still be an infinite number of these "jumps" or branches considering that EVERY finite pattern must be infinitely existant in an infinite spacetime-

    so when a truck falls on your head- you die- but an infinite number of you survived miraculously elsewhere and the pattern of you must continue there- and an infinite amout of you also don't survive but are resurrected through hypercomputation [ala tippler for instance] or a rebuilding of your last viable quantum states by one of the future earth technologies- or an alien ressurective technology- or a random structure identical to you just accidently coming into existance as part of a quantum computer glitch- or less likely [but still infinite number of occurances] a freak confluence of virtual particles- or a freak assemblege from hawking radiation- or any process in an infinite universe that can result in a pattern of your complexity being created from sheer chance- albeit very very very rare- you might conclude that these other yous are not you and that you are the finite local you- but this doesn't work becasue the finite local you's matter is constantly being swapped out- your brain protein was steak and fish a few weeks ago- you are the pattern and only the pattern- and all of your deepest soul/self's ideals and dreams and memories are that pattern- and so is the sense of you being you- and ALL THAT continues infinitely elsewhere/elsewhen- the matter/space/time is irrelevent-they are all you- you cannot die- so welcom to hell I guess :tongue2:

    you get the picture- it comes out just like the "many-worlds" interpretation- but with just one infinite world- but then imagine infinite infinite worlds like most cosmologists conjecture probably exists- and you begin to see the ruthless infinite multiplicity and forced "immortality" of ANY finite structure/pattern in the universe- so you are not special in getting to be infinitely multiple and immortal- because the same thing goes for badger's brains- Windows XP source code- and Metallica songs- ANY POSSIBLE discrete/finite program/pattern/process has this strange cosmic existence

    it's all rather daunting and weird- and something you don't want to talk about or it might give the superstitious some more excuse for their religious beliefs- but I think that they have already parasitized QM and many-worlds of these kinds of ideas to death anyway-


    /:set\AI transmedia laboratories

    http://setai-transmedia.com [Broken]
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  7. Jul 28, 2004 #6


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    From your "cosmology.htm" there is:
    I guess the only part and word that I can read and understand is in the second paragraph quoted; the word "absurd".
  8. Jul 28, 2004 #7

    *edit: angry cursing removed :wink: * [why do some immature brats feel the need to be rude and insulting for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON and NO BASIS?! ]- it's just ontological musings- it's not meant to be science or a crackpot theory- and cosmic fractal structure is something that most mainstream cosmologists take as a tautology but it doesn't mean anything as it's merely an anthropentric perspective of structure itself- also any clever person must realize that no matter the physics of the universe- that those physics must have emerged from a fundamental chaos- and when order forms out of chaos it is always a fractal structure- this is a simple and undisputed observation of structure- isn't it- I just take the idea and run with it- ALWAYS bearing in mind that this is just brainstorming- I'm an artist- IT'S MY JOB to explore ideas like this-

    therefore the idea cannot be "absurd" by definition- no?

    I find it odd that of all the lunatic rantings on my site- you pick something that is a rather obvious and easily true to call "absurd"- not something wild like my idea of planck-scale technology or mechanisms for psionics- this was just a rather commen view of existential philiosophy and fundamental cosmology- what gives?

    and what exaclty about the paragraph did you not understand? do you have any knowledge about fractal geometry? have you read any of B Mandelbrot's work? the idea is simple: some folks argue that the universe is ultimately discrete- som say it is fundamentaly continuous- I merely suggest: "hey- everyone might be right- becasue fractal structures are BOTH discrete and continous- and fractal structures seem to be everywhere- so this might suggest a continous nature that is structured into quantized hierarchies of apparent discreteness"-

    if you think that is absurd or illucid- I don't know what to tell you- other than stop being a jerk for no good reason or cause


    /:set\AI transmedia laboratories

    http://setai-transmedia.com [Broken]
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  9. Jul 28, 2004 #8


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    Gee, why hold back? Tell us how you really feel. Besides, I have to be a jerk for no good reason or cause since that's the reputation I already have and need to maintain.

    Anyway, wouldn't:
    violate the second law of thermodynamics? Just asking, no need for profanity. Profanity is considered rude.
  10. Jul 28, 2004 #9
    re second law:

    I don't know- it seems to me that entropy actually emerges from this-

    when you talk about ultimate existence BEFORE physics even emerge- it seems to me you only have two possibilities for the cosmos: either the cosmos does not exist [which we know it does]- or it does exist and it's fundamental existence is pure chaos- why? because if it weren't pure chaos it would be some ordered form- and such a form can only exist if some more fundamental dynamics allow for this form to take shape- so logically it seems that if the cosmos exists that it's initial condition is pure chaos-

    now mathematically we can observe how chaotic states always [ALWAYS] emerge fractal patterns when some random fluctuation/event occurs- I conjecture that out of Chaos you would have an infinitude of random fluctuation- and that some of these would be such that structures and antistructures would emerge that would anihilate each other like matter/antimatter- just from pure chance and random events- as a result pure chaos would become full of ruptures from these anihilations which would cause gaps that would "fill" from the "pressure" of random stable forms which would be seeking equilibrium- that's entropy- these viable fluctuations trying to fill in the gaps emerges as thermodynamics- we know this process would have a fractal structure becasue that is what always emerges when chaotic systems are perturbed- right?

    the result of this fractal structured dynamism out-of-chaos would result in the emrgence of motion [through tension of seeking entropic equilibrium] and spaces [crystalizations of quantized structures- perhaps forming the substrate of vacua/branes]- here is where physics emerges- after ruptures in chaos allow vacua to form

    that is the general idea- ONE of my attempts to deal with the question "why does Existence exist?"-

    I have another completely different ontology based on the idea that since our bodies evolved to model/copy the world- and that the most fundamental aspects of the world were modeled earliest by our most primitive neurostructures- that the only way to find out why/how the Cosmos exists is to explore the most primitive/unconscious realms of our psyches- where the common threads of myth/cosmogeny/ semiotics dwell- and that in order to understand the base existence in which the multiverse/universe and it's physics/metrics/thermodynamics emerge from requires a return to primitive shamanic/eastern vision and symbology fom the perspective of Reason/Logics- that perhaps the basic semiotic structures of human unconscious thought might shed light on the nature of Existence itself- kind of Kwisatz Haderach kinda stuff :tongue2:

    trying to answer unanswerable questions is my attempt to find enough peace of mind to sleep at night!


    /:set\AI transmedia laboratories

    http://setai-transmedia.com [Broken]
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