Is Cheating a Lucrative Business for College Students?

[Gokul43201]

original link is dead, but from the discussion, it sounds like we've got ourselves a lazy teacher.

Justify?

disciplinary action is being wielded in the wrong direction.

Explain?

 

[Proton Soup]

Justify?

Explain?

instructor is lazy and generates exams from a testbank.

 

[electrical_ck]

If somebody would have given me a possible final exam test, I would have taken it and continued my normal studying.

Bad/Lazy teacher IMO.

 

[Gokul43201]

instructor is lazy and generates exams from a testbank.

Still waiting on an explanation for the other part.

 

[stevenb]

If somebody would have given me a possible final exam test, I would have taken it and continued my normal studying.

Even if you are not ethical enough, one would hope you would at least be smart enough to not take the possible final exam test. Your willingness to risk expulsion and the loss of invested college tuition and valuable years of your time, when very little is to be gained, does not speak well of your common sense.

Being truthful is the one bright spot in your comment, but I wonder if you would be honest enough to say that to your parents, and prospective employers. If yes, then at least here you would be putting truth ahead of common sense, which is a step in the right direction.

I would recommend that you aim higher. Try being ethical and smart at the same time. You'll be amazed at what unexpected rewards often come of it.

 

[waht]

Evolutionary speaking a cheater would be a favorable trait among many. And this is what we see in the real world. Many people cheat all the time, whether at blue collar jobs or white collar jobs, whether young or old, whether married? Whenever there is a possibility to MILK the system, you will find lots of people lining up for grabs. One can even argue that the economic crisis was a direct result of cheating.

And so, there is no point in zeroing in on bunch of students. This system is basically a combination of upbringing, socials norms, peer pressure, (nurture), and human evolution (nature). And you have no control over these forces. While I'm not supporting cheating, I recognize those who did cheat simply exercised the physical laws that makes them up, the mind and the body (Ashby). Cheating is an emergent process.

Therefore, if you don't like it and don't and want to impede cheating, you have to fight it. Don't expect and drool over arbitrarily moral axioms and expect everyone will bend over. Take active action.

 

[electrical_ck]

Even if you are not ethical enough, one would hope you would at least be smart enough to not take the possible final exam test. Your willingness to risk expulsion and the loss of invested college tuition and valuable years of your time, when very little is to be gained, does not speak well of your common sense.

Being truthful is the one bright spot in your comment, but I wonder if you would be honest enough to say that to your parents, and prospective employers. If yes, then at least here you would be putting truth ahead of common sense, which is a step in the right direction.

I would recommend that you aim higher. Try being ethical and smart at the same time. You'll be amazed at what unexpected rewards often come of it.

umm ok mr high horse? Do you have a problem with students passing around old exams for studying purposes? When a student would give me an old exam from previous semesters I would practice those problems, I never said I would bring an old exam or anything to the actual exam. I would use it as a study guide if anything.

 

[stevenb]

umm ok mr high horse? When a student would give me an old exam from previous semesters I would practice those problems, I never said I would bring an old exam or anything to the actual exam. I would use it as a study guide if anything.

Ah, studying from old exams is not cheating, but you said "If somebody would have given me a possible final exam test I would have taken it ...". This sounded like you would be taking a possible copy of the exam you are about to take, which would be cheating.

If you are saying the former and not the latter, then I'm sorry. I don't think this case is about students studying from old exams. It seems to be about students knowing they had THE answers to the present exam. There is a huge difference here.

 

[electrical_ck]

Ah, studying from old exams is not cheating, but you said "If somebody would have given me a possible final exam test I would have taken it ...". This sounded like you would be taking a possible copy of the exam you are about to take, which would be cheating.

If you are saying the former and not the latter, then I'm sorry. I don't think this case is about students studying from old exams. It seems to be about students knowing they had THE answers to the present exam. There is a huge difference here.

Yeah I would never bring anything like that to an actual final.

 

[stevenb]

Yeah I would never bring anything like that to an actual final.

Ah, good! I'm sincerely happy to hear that. I apologize.

 

[Proton Soup]

Still waiting on an explanation for the other part.

what is there to explain? you discipline the teacher for being lazy and using a testbank to generate the exams.

sure, it's great to believe that there's this awesome labor-saving device from the textbook companies. and it's a great way to get teachers to use your book. but this stuff gets stolen and has been out there for a long time now. you would think even an inkling of common sense would exist at the university level. but no.

i also find his theatrics just a wee bit incredulous(i did find the vid on youtube, tho it seems it's being scrubbed from the net as we speak). flabbergasted and floored is he? i guess i would be too if my *** were exposed.

 

[Gokul43201]

what is there to explain? you discipline the teacher for being lazy and using a testbank to generate the exams.

So the teacher should be disciplined for breaking the unwritten code of "thou shalt not be lazy", but the students that cheated deserve no punishment for violating clearly written rules?

 

[Pengwuino]

Some people seem to see Teacher vs. Student as some sort of competition! NO, students are NOT in a competition with the teacher to con them out of giving them passing grades and teachers are not suppose to see students as a pack of criminals that must have every defense built up against their need to cheat! That seems to be the problem with students. They have no idea what it means to "earn" a grade. Someone at another department has an article posted on their door about how students don't believe they have to "earn" grades (although the article focused more upon "A for effort" thinking). I need to get a hold of that article...

 

[xxChrisxx]

Don't you think this is an inherent trait of multiple choice tests though? (I'm still assuming this is multiple choice, as there has been nothing to show otherwise yet and even 50 short answer questions would be a pretty hefty exam). I can see the justification, as marking 600 long answer tests would take rather a long time.

It's just far more difficult to cheat at long answer questions (you'll need a bloody big crib sheet or eyes like superman), as you get most of your marks for method rather than the answer.

And frankly method marks have saved my bacon more than once.

 

[DanP]

I agree that this issue of showing lenience is potentially unfair, but forgiveness is not unethical. Perhaps he has no right to forgive them on behalf of the noncheating students, but the complication is that he can't prove conclusively who cheated, so maybe it's better to just identify them by letting them confess. Again, your accusation of unethical behavior is unfounded.

Then he has no case. He should lie down, and realize that the fault is his and the school's for the poor processes which led to such a situation.

Second, it is of utmost stupidity in life to confess anything which can't be proven by a investigator. It's naive to expect to identify ppl "by letting them confess". SOme will crack, most wont.


Third, yes, I can say he is an unethical man. He favors cheaters. He basically screams "Hey, cheating pays off. Ill forgive you cheaters, and Illl hit in fair students for you"

 

[JaredJames]

Why is it always students vs teacher here?

I'm somewhat dubious about what constitutes cheating, but if there was a possible 700 questions and they were able to access the answers to the exact ones on a test then they clearly had access to the questions before hand - as long as the teacher didn't provide them, that is cheating.
If they had all 700 multiple choice answers on their person going into the exam, that is cheating.
If they had all 700 questions with answers and used them to study from, that isn't cheating.

Do we know which of the above it was?

The first is cheating on the students part.
The second is cheating on the students part, but I'd also put some blame on the lecturer for using such an easily breached system for generating exams.
The third is, from my point of view, not cheating on the students part. It simply the lecturer using an unsecure method of generating the exams and the students studying from the materials they know will come up - pretty much revising from past years papers (in my uni, although the questions change, the general theme of them is the same).

So far as letting them resit the test goes, this is plain ridiculous and is screaming to me that he feels he had a part in this problem. He is trying to cover his mistake. The ethics class, I don't think he can force on anyone unless he can prove who cheated.
I have to say, innocent until proven guilty. This isn't about "letting the cheaters go", this is about proving who has cheated and punishing accordingly. Otherwise you end up in a situation where possibly only some of those who cheated get punished and face potentially punishing those who didn't cheat.

 

[BobG]

Second, it is of utmost stupidity in life to confess anything which can't be proven by a investigator. It's naive to expect to identify ppl "by letting them confess". SOme will crack, most wont.

Except in this case. Of an estimated 200 cheaters, about 75% confessed and took the professor up on his offer. Most cracked. And of those who cracked, how many will tell who they got the answer sheets from and who they shared the answer sheet with?

Any cheaters that didn't confess will experience huge stress at a minimum and at least some of the non-confessing cheaters are going to face full punishment.

I agree that if all the students had stood pat and said nothing, there wouldn't have been much the teacher could have done.

As things worked out, the teacher inconvenienced all the students, with their consolation being two chances and their grade being the best of their two chances. He also made the incident very unpleasant for most of the cheaters and possibly devastating for some of the cheaters. (And the ethics class is for the confessed cheaters, not for all of the students.)

There's only one possibility that hasn't been covered. The cheater that confesses and then lies about who gave him the answer key and who he shared it with. In other words, he and/or a few other cheaters implicate innocent people just to obtain a small amount of revenge on the professor by turning his plan into a fiasco.

 

[stevenb]

Then he has no case. He should lie down, and realize that the fault is his and the school's for the poor processes which led to such a situation.

Sure, some of the fault is with the professor and the school. They were not good enough policeman. Still, the police don't lie down, blame themselves and not-deal with the crime and the criminals just because they were not good enough to prevent the crime.

Second, it is of utmost stupidity in life to confess anything which can't be proven by a investigator. It's naive to expect to identify ppl "by letting them confess". SOme will crack, most wont.

In life it might be stupid to confess, but here (in a school) is was a good choice. It's not naive to expect ppl to confess. They do it all the time. Here most did crack, so again you are wrong, as clearly shown by the data.

Third, yes, I can say he is an unethical man. He favors cheaters. He basically screams "Hey, cheating pays off. Ill forgive you cheaters, and Illl hit in fair students for you"

Nonsense. Giving someone a second chance is not unethical, it is not favoring and it is not condoning the behavior. Note that I'm not saying I necessarily agree with all actions of the professor, nor do I necessarily disagree with all of your points. I just think an accusation of unethical behavior back at the professor is unfair and even unethical in itself.

 

[BobG]

Bob,

Lets say research assignment, back to my original question then:


Is it plagiarism even if credit is given by the student to the source, what would the professor's options be given this circumstance ?

Rhody...

It's a funny world. Some people have trouble writing their own memoirs without resorting to plagiarism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/12/george-bush-book-decision-points_n_782731.html#s180908

Is it ethical to challenge the accuracy of someone's description of events and then later use that description almost word for word in your own memoirs?

I can only hope that someday he'll regret admitting to torture in his memoirs and respond with the age old defense, "I was misquoted".

 

[Proton Soup]

So the teacher should be disciplined for breaking the unwritten code of "thou shalt not be lazy", but the students that cheated deserve no punishment for violating clearly written rules?

maybe a little of both. but you need clear evidence of cheating.


another question might be just how much this is a cheat. 700 questions in the test bank. if you're studying 700 questions, then one might reasonably conclude that you're studying the material itself. and if you learn the material, then you deserve the grade.

 

[Upisoft]

Second, it is of utmost stupidity in life to confess anything which can't be proven by a investigator.

It is stupid or/and unethical to get willingly in a situation that will require investigation.

 

[DanP]

It is stupid or/and unethical to get willingly in a situation that will require investigation.

unethical , maybe. Stupid ? Frankly, not always.

 

[JaredJames]

If the questions come from a test bank of 700, and the students are aware of this so they then go away and study those 700 questions, I wouldn't call that cheating. They have been told what is likely to come up and have studied accordingly.

The only way it becomes cheating is if they either all of the answer to the potential 700 questions or the specific answers to the test questions into the exam.

My university provides past papers to students to revise from. I can look through those papers and see what types of questions are likely to come up, so from that I know what I need to be studying.
I put most of my effort into studying those style of questions and making sure I can answer them. It is pointless me studying something that has never come up (the lecturers tell us to look over past papers because they are the question styles we're likely to see).

Is it cheating that I learn how to do those types of questions to perfection? No. I'm learning from the materials provided.
If the uni insisted on vastly different questions each year that would stop that revision style, but until then that is the accepted way to revise for exams and even the lecturers will tell you that.
(Through the paper there are a number of questions covering all topics learned through the year - you still have to know what you're doing because there are little changes each time, but it's still a similar question style - generally on a every other year basis).

If the students know what is likely to come up and learn that, that isn't cheating (assuming they don't gain said knowledge via unethical means).

 

[Pengwuino]

One thing I'm wondering is this... 700 questions... for a midterm exam?

A midterm covers what, 4-8 weeks of material? How can you even generate 700 questions for an area of a text that is covered in such a brief time? This isn't a physics text where you can just change a number and situation here and there and have a brand new problem to a student. Then again, you can't even do that.

I'm starting to think the 700 question number being thrown around is realistically far far fewer than that. If you're going to memorize 700 questions, why not just... be honest and study?

 

[Proton Soup]

it's interesting how he changes the bin sizes on the histograms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbzJTTDO9f4

is changing the bin size an external force applied to the data set ?oh, and then he mentions the issue at the end about the textbook companies turning this over to their legal staff. so students that turn themselves in under the amnesty offered may be exposing themselves to civil action? this could get interesting.

 

[Pengwuino]

oh, and then he mentions the issue at the end about the textbook companies turning this over to their legal staff. so students that turn themselves in under the amnesty offered may be exposing themselves to civil action? this could get interesting.

I'm sure a lot of that was just to scare the students. The only real legal action the companies would try to pursue is against the person who originally gained access to the questions.

 

[D H]

Pawn shop owners who accept stolen goods are accessories to the crime. People who buy stolen art are accessories to the crime. The same applies to those students who obtained this stolen information.

 

[DR13]

It is sickening to think that people are actually blaming the teacher for the fact that the students stole the test. If someone broke into your house is it your fault if they steal from you? Should insurance companies just be able to say, "Sorry, we are no going to give you any money because you should have been able to stop the thief." This is rediculous. At my school there are literally no professors or TAs in the room when the tests take place (they are usually in a room close by in case anyone has questions). And guess what: NO ONE CHEATS (which goes against all of the people who make the rediculous claim that everyone cheats). There is a very strict honor code that all students sign before the test. If anyone is found to have cheated there are serious repercussions. But I do not know of anyone that has cheated. It is horrible that some of you are excusing people from cheating. Also, they would be cheating the good kids in the class by ruining the curve. So we are penalizing the kids who didnt cheat!

 

[Proton Soup]

the problem i have is that using test banks only serves to enable cheating. if you are a student that would not cheat under any circumstances, electronically-distributed test banks only make things worse for you. they should either make the banks openly-available to all students, or get rid of them entirely.

 

[lisab]

the problem i have is that using test banks only serves to enable cheating. if you are a student that would not cheat under any circumstances, electronically-distributed test banks only make things worse for you. they should either make the banks openly-available to all students, or get rid of them entirely.

I have to be totally straight with you here...if someone gave me the answers to a test right before I sat for it, and the circumstances were such that no one could *ever* find out that I used them...I just couldn't use them. And I really, truly believe most people are like me (doesn't everyone think that ). I think most people are honorable. So this "enabling the cheating"...I don't buy it. Cheating is cheating; how easy it was is irrelevant.

 

[DanP]

It is sickening to think that people are actually blaming the teacher for the fact that the students stole the test. If someone broke into your house is it your fault if they steal from you? Should insurance companies just be able to say, "Sorry, we are no going to give you any money because you should have been able to stop the thief." This is rediculous. At my school there are literally no professors or TAs in the room when the tests take place (they are usually in a room close by in case anyone has questions). And guess what: NO ONE CHEATS (which goes against all of the people who make the rediculous claim that everyone cheats). There is a very strict honor code that all students sign before the test. If anyone is found to have cheated there are serious repercussions. But I do not know of anyone that has cheated. It is horrible that some of you are excusing people from cheating. Also, they would be cheating the good kids in the class by ruining the curve. So we are penalizing the kids who didnt cheat!

Get over it. None is blaming the teacher for the fact someone stolen information from him.
I blame him for the balless attitude he has, the fact that he hits in all students, innocent or not, and the fact he is not acknowledging that when you are cheated by a huge percentage in a test, this only means one thing: you are incompetent to administer the test and the school procedures are a sorry joke.

 

[DanP]

And I really, truly believe most people are like me (doesn't everyone think that ). I think most people are honorable.

Lisa, don't get me wrong but this is a form of naivety. Most humans will cheat in their lifes, and many won't even think that what they done is cheating. Myabe due to a form of cognitive dissonance. Most humans will lie, in fact I don't know myself any human who didn't lied during their lifes. Id be glad to meet one .

Ppl cheat all the time. In schools, at jobs, in married life, in their civil life (taxes for example), in amateur and professional sports, just about anywhere. You have to be blind not to see it. Just watch carefully.

Ppl aren't good or bad. We are what we are.

 

[Grep]

Most humans will lie, in fact I don't know myself any human who didn't lied during their lifes.

Of course you don't.

They've honestly answered questions such as "Do these jeans make my *** look fat?" with "No, your *** makes your *** look fat." Or answered "What are you thinking?" with "If I wanted you to know, I would have said it out loud."

Needless to say they're no longer with us.

 

[Proton Soup]

I have to be totally straight with you here...if someone gave me the answers to a test right before I sat for it, and the circumstances were such that no one could *ever* find out that I used them...I just couldn't use them. And I really, truly believe most people are like me (doesn't everyone think that ). I think most people are honorable. So this "enabling the cheating"...I don't buy it. Cheating is cheating; how easy it was is irrelevant.

according to the prof, the honesty rate here is about 2/3. but probably, not everyone had the opportunity to study the testbank, so theoretically, the number who would cheat is even higher than 1/3.

 

[D H]

You do realize that the only way to study from the test bank was to have obtained it illegally?