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Suicide THE fundamental right?

  1. Oct 13, 2004 #1
    is suicide the individuals most basic and fundamental right?

    is it incosiderate for individual to kill himself and deprive his family and society of himself, since it is in most cases the circumstances and inconsideration of the society that is the cause of this?
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 13, 2004 #2
    I've been told, I always have the right to die.. I don't know if there's a specific age where that right comes in or not. I think it is inconsiderate for an individual not only to family and society but to themselves to end theirself before allowing the given society or living circumstances to be adjusted that fit themselves where living on with it could work..

    Everything is an Adventure
    Most of life is taking leaps off an edge hoping to catch the other side
    There are different size leaps
    Some you know you can do, you try
    Always a possibility of slipping and falling
    Some you're not sure if you can do
    You try anyway, with bigger chances that you'll fall
    How will you know what it's like on the other side of the leap if you don't try?
  4. Oct 13, 2004 #3
    Your use of the word right implies that this is a political question. Suicide is clearly an option. Do you mean to discuss the government granted right to sucide? What do you mean?

    How can you ask this? There cannot be a single answer that fits all situations. This question makes me think that you are asking this in a political manner, as to whether or not there should be punishment for the attempt.

    In other words, I really do not understand what your post is driving at.
  5. Oct 13, 2004 #4
    In some countries euthenasia is a legal right. But whatever the case might be, if someone really wants to commit suicide there is little that can be done to prevent them.

    That being the case, I have to echo other people and ask what exactly do you mean?
  6. Oct 13, 2004 #5
    In a community, you are needed, weather you like it or not.

    Your expericances, for better or worse, are needed for the evolution of humanity.

    If we as a group allow auto destruction, we are not helping ourselfs at all.

    Sucide is not a right, as to invoke that right would curtail the rights of others as it is a fundamental right of a human being to not be alone.
  7. Oct 14, 2004 #6
    You don't seem to understand what evolution is all about.

    You clearly do not understand what a right is. Care to define the word right as you used it these 4 times in this sentence?
  8. Oct 14, 2004 #7
    A counter-argument to this would likely state the vague nature of your statement. An argument of this light magnitude would likely be ignored in e.g. the court of law (imo).
  9. Oct 14, 2004 #8
    Suicide is the GREATEST RISK for the human race to take. A society that permits (or whose ACTIONS lead to) Suicides takes the GREATEST RISK of all!
  10. Oct 15, 2004 #9
    Philocrat, will you please stop bolding and colouring all the fonts you use in every post? If your post has any true significance, it does not need any more contrast.
  11. Oct 16, 2004 #10
    A modern court system would ignore my argument dekoi, as I am not speaking in a strictly legal sense.

    When I speak of the social implications of suicide I am thinking in very small populations in a more primitive age of human existance, and more specificly, in a state of anomity.

    In a modern state, were no one knows each other, the suicide of person means less and less as the population grows.

    From this I arrive at the axiom that suicide is wrong and should be unlawfull to the degree your actions may or may not affect the rest of the population
  12. Oct 16, 2004 #11
    You are making quite an emphatic statement. However, I have no idea what you are talking about, or what you mean by risk. Do you?
  13. Oct 16, 2004 #12
    How selfish of you.
  14. Oct 16, 2004 #13
    You can't generalize life...
  15. Oct 17, 2004 #14
    I am sorry Prometheus, but human existance is fundamentally selfish. We base all our morality basicly on the "I'll scratch your back, if you scratch MY back" mentality. It is the system of mutual and benefical parasites.

    If your death has little or negiable effects population, then remeber to cut your arm laterally from the wrist to the start of your elbow deeply to allow for maximal blood dispersal.

    If your death brings about negative consequences for the community at large, then suck it up and hold out to the tragic bitter end.
  16. Oct 17, 2004 #15
    I will not disagree with this.

    I suspect that you are trying to be funny. I hope that you are trying to be funny. Other than your sense of humor, I really have no idea what the point of your post is. Do you have a point? If so, please make it in a manner that is more clear.

    Society puts certain individuals to death, in this country, all the time. Whether or not you or I think that the death penalty is justified or deserves our support, the fact is that it is legal. Therefore, I think that your desire to see suicide be made illegal is selfish of you, as this society has determined that not all deaths have a negative effect on society.
  17. Oct 17, 2004 #16
    Again I repeat I speak not from a personal point of view.

    Personally I see no problem if you who I do not know in some far away country takes upon himself to end his life. It does not AFFECT me. I would though oppose with ALL my will if say my brother wants to kill himself,... it is selfish of me I know, but I cannot bear to lose my brother. His death WILL affect me.

    From a societal POV, which sees individual humans lives as cogs and componets in a big machine, the same attitude would be dangerous. As far as the social "machine" goes, who does not have the benefit of NOT KNOWING each person,... each person serves a function and purpose and it would behove the "machine" to not lose any of it's "parts" needlessly. This is ever more true the SMALLER the population, therefore the more critcally important the interconnections between individuals is the MORE important it is not NOT allow individuals to autodestruct. Only in extreme population thresholds and population overconcentrations could autodestruction BEGIN to be a viable option.

    Therefore AS A GENERAL RULE OF THUMB nature instils the concept that sucicde is NOT a good thing. It is little wonder that most primitive religous systems captured this usefull axiom, and enacted laws and ordinaces that eliminated or at least reduced suicide to extreme highly specific situations.

    Does this in effect violate and trampel on your personal and intimate human rights. Absolutely does. But as far as the community at large is concerned, TO DAMM BAD.

    If you think Im "selfish" and "unfair" in my views of suicide, you wouldnt even want to hear of my opion of the whole silly concept of "human rights".
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2004
  18. Oct 17, 2004 #17


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    Would not this invalidate the overall argument (why not allow individual do what he pleases), if an individual comes to the conclusion that its time to give up ... what possible use could a greater community have for him? And as such make the responsibility of a person towards the community negligible, in turn arising the question what sort of responsibility should a society have towards a suicidal person (not speaking in legal etc. terms)?
  19. Oct 17, 2004 #18
    Well I for the survial of a small community a damm has to be built to regulate a raging river during the raing season all the extra arms and legs will be needed.

    It has the responsibility to stop him to whatever pratical extent possible from killing himself. Not more effort should be put in then would be lost in the person ending his life could afford the rest of the community..
  20. Oct 17, 2004 #19
    You are correct that this is a general rule. There are numerous exceptions.

    I do not disagree with what you have said here. What I disagree with is that once your brother has been saved from attempted suicide, you would have him sent to prison for even attempting to negatively affect your admittedly selfish self.
  21. Oct 17, 2004 #20
    Prison? No that would not be a efficant thing to do.

    Mentally healthy people dont commite suicide (under normal conditions )
    They therefore should be sent to a mental institute.
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