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Suicide wrong?

  1. May 24, 2004 #1
    I was just wondering, If a person who has great potential, and great ability to change the world for the better decides to commit suicide, is it wrong? Isn't it his decision to make? Should he have to kill himself with the guilt of 'what ifs' on his mind, or should he be able to kill himself not caring about the potential and ability's he had?

    Does he have to feel guilty about leaving his family behind and causing grief and turmoil? Isnt it fair for him to end his own pain? Should he leave a suicide note telling his family he did this for himself, selfishly? or will that just create more grief, I dont know, was just a question I had on my mind.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. May 24, 2004 #2
    With that avatar, I'm hoping you're not planning to flip off the world !
     
  4. May 25, 2004 #3
    Why does the person feel suicidal?
     
  5. May 25, 2004 #4
    Suicide is obviously wrong. Life is a gift that must not be taken lightly. Our life is not our own to dispose of when we wish. Each of us is part of a greater whole whether we realize it or not.
     
  6. May 25, 2004 #5
    Can you prove any of those assumptions ?

    [edit]
    Oops, I forgot my manners!

    Welcome to PF !
     
  7. May 25, 2004 #6
    ^ life is a gift which once you lose it, it will never come back.
     
  8. May 25, 2004 #7
    IMHO, except in the case of terminal illness and pain, suicide is a sad form of surrender. "I have so much to offer, but the world won't let me show it. So, i will quit and that will teach you." A grotesque expression of anger; turned inward.

    Is it wrong?? Not for us to judge. If it wasn't a choice within freewill, suicide wouldn't be possible.

    Personally, i do not think that anything written or said will diminished the negative effect on the family (all loved ones). Each will deal with their individual sense of guilt as best they can. Isn't that the original purpose? punish those that won't let you do what you believe you should. again, a poor way to express anger.

    love and peace,
    olde drunk
     
  9. May 25, 2004 #8
    I have this avatar specifically so that people will label me... And yea, I like rap too.

    I dont think it is relevant why, the only thing that matters is the right to carry out the act, and from what I think, nothing should stop it from happening because the person doesnt have to care whether or not other people think negatively because it wont matter when he's gone.

    Do you have any reasoning? I would like to see some.

    Your right about it not coming back, but if someone viewed life as not so much of a gift, and maybe a little more as a burden, then wouldn't you concede that living once would be an advantage?

    More like, its a shame it had to come to this, but there is no other solution. The only anger in this scenario is trivial, and the person who is considering the final solution knows it, so there is no unsettled anger in this equation.

    Anyways, I really can't see any reason in this scenario for a person to keep trying, because if he does kill himself, makes it clean, thus lessening the shock to the family, then I believe time can heal the rest of the wounds.

    The only thing that is bothering me in the scenario is the what-ifs that he could of had in the future, but then again, as I said, the current burdens in my opinion, are too much to yield an optomistic future.
     
  10. May 25, 2004 #9
    Ok, but so you know; I wasn’t attempting to label, only curious if the avatar and the nature of this post might share a commonality. By "flip off the world" I was alluding to committing suicide. I listen to rap too.
    I support the right to commit suicide and believe one of the things which give man uniqueness is the ability to view life as a product of choice.
    I don’t know what you mean by “makes it clean”.
     
  11. May 25, 2004 #10
    Just for the record im not talking about myself, this is only a scenario.

    And by clean I mean pills.
     
  12. May 26, 2004 #11

    loseyourname

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Gold Member

    If my life is not mine, why do I refer to it as "my" life?
     
  13. May 26, 2004 #12
    Never say obviously because nothing is obvious, no matter how clear it may be to you, it is not always obvious to everyone else, especially if you yourself are wrong.

    Life is precious and it is a gift that has been given to us, it is up to us how we use this gift and the gift giver only hopes we use it wisely.
    Suicide is a quick way out, an easy way to solve your problems. But imagine, if your world was falling down around you and you had nothing left, would you really feel like carrying on and living another second let alone another day. Imagine you have so much sorrow and anger inside of you that it chokes you so badly every time you take a breath and you can't swallow because it hurts too much. Wouldn't you just want it to stop right there and then? And suicide, wouldn't that be an easy way to stop it?

    However much I understand that reasons for suicide and I feel so bad for these people for thinking about ending their lives, I believe suicide shouldn't be an option. There is always another way out, there is always someone to turn to. Even if you don't know them and if everyone has turned their backs on you, their should be someone out there in the world that understands how you feel.

    If someone I knew was to commit suicide, no matter how clean, I'd want to know why. I'd want to know what was so terrible that they were goign through that they felt the need to end it. I'd want to know why they coudln't tell me or someone closer and why they couldn't talk about it.

    You may think you're really bad off, you may hate your life, but no matter how bad your life is, there is always someone worse off. I don't think leaving your family behind tops off this reason. There is someone worse off than you, with such a bad life and such bad health and so on and suicide hasn't even crossed their mind, if they can survive it, why can't you? If they'd been given the chance you had in life, they could of done something worthwhile, they could of gone alot further and they could of handled your problems because you may think you know what suffering is, but never tell a blind man you don't get to see other countries because he could give you a list so much bigger than yours about what he doesn't see. Instead of complaining about the bad things in life, take the time to smell the roses and look at the good points.

    When thinking about suicide, I say instead of a knife, use a pen, instead of blood, use ink and instead of your own body, use paper and write down everything you feel. Make a diary, may seem childish but if you can get these feelings down on paper, it can lighten your load, just a little bit but it can and if your load is lightened, you can carry on another day.

    Pain can stop. Being dead can't.
     
  14. May 26, 2004 #13
    I am against suicide.
    The reason I feel that way is that suicide shouts to the entire universe, seen and unseen, that no hope is possible and that I refuse any further chance of that hope.
    As long as I am alive, no matter the pain, no matter the circumstance, there IS hope.
     
  15. May 27, 2004 #14
    It's a choice. A very hard choice when you let life taken you to that point also. It is not an easy choice. It's just less hard then the choice of making things right.

    What is required to make things right? Confronting those who you love or those who aren't helping you enjoy life. But one person who isn't helping you enjoy life is yourself. And making things right requires you to confront yourself. Not with anger but with compassion and understanding.

    But if you ever get to the point in life where suicide becomes a choice. Why not give up trying to stay in the role your family and people around creates for you and start doing differnt things and try to enjoy life.

    I've never got to the point of suicide mainly because i do not believe that suicide is a choice i will allow myself to make. Altough i was pretty down once and felt like leaving. But instead of giving up i just changed my role. You'll be surprised that it doesn't take long for people to adjust to the new you. Altough some people will try to change you back and might even be your friend. You just have to understand that if they keep trying then they are not reliable enough to be an important part of your life.

    So in other words you have potential no matter who you are. You just have to create it.
     
  16. May 27, 2004 #15
    Suicide is a choice. It may not be the most desirable choice, but our ability to make that choice is what makes us human. Wrong and right is subjective. Suicide may seem wrong to you and I, but right to the person choosing to do it.

    Personally, I believe that just as it's a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, it's also someone's right to choose to die- providing they are of sound mind, and not mentally incompetent. Of course defining "mentally incompetent" can be tricky.

    If someone is terminally ill,and in a great deal of pain- to the point where death would be preferrable, who are we to dictate that they should live on and continue to suffer in the name of righteousness? Take away that right, and you take away personal freedom of choice- now assisting is another thing- which I won't touch. But bottom line is that freedom of personal choice- including the choice to die- is our own, and shouldn't be intervened.
     
  17. May 27, 2004 #16
    Yea, I agree, suicide is a choice. I was thinking of suicide bombing when I saw this thread. I wonder how suicide bombers is thinking. I dunno but it looks like most of them are religous, and they'll have to respect life so I wonder why they're doing it. Are they trying to justify their killed friends by killing other. Are they really beliving that their god will take them to a paradise or is it just a reason for killing people? Any thoughts?
     
  18. May 27, 2004 #17
    The thought process of a suicide bomber is certainly different from that of an individual contemplating "normal" suicide.
    A suicide bomber often has complex and bizzare idealogical perspectives(usually developed through militant religous association), which makes them perhaps the most dangerous individuals outside of serial killers.
     
  19. May 27, 2004 #18
    That one should be able to end life before the chance arrives to reproduce, I don't suspect that suicidal tendancy (least before children-begetting) Should be around too long. Unless of course it is a result of non-genetic factor (which it very-well may be).

    Regardless, do you wear a seatbelt? Why? Why should one not have complete control over one's self completely. Stated in a previous post, without a doubt is suicide a beauty in that it makes life a choice. But what angers me moreso about this "choice of self" argument is that I may not ride without a seatbelt, use narcotics, etc. (not that I wan't to, but that I feel I should be able to?)

    Oh well. A moral is a moral is a moral. Hooray for orthodoxy!
     
  20. Jun 4, 2004 #19
    Your right about it not coming back, but if someone viewed life as not so much of a gift, and maybe a little more as a burden, then wouldn't you concede that living once would be an advantage?

    ^ You should realize that you are not the only one going through tough times there are the less fortunate(like the poor) that suffer more than you do.
    but it is true some think that dying is the best part of our journey, like me.
     
  21. Aug 24, 2004 #20
    Hume's Thoughts on Suicide [Paraphrased]

    Hume paraphrased: taken from http://academics.vmi.edu/psy_dr/killing_yourself.htm

    Hume (1711-1776): Suicide cannot be a crime against God or the natural law, because (a) God gave us the ability and, sometimes, the desire to commit suicide, (b) it is not wrong to go against nature by building dams, diverting rivers, etc., and (c) it is not wrong to interfere in matters of life and death, otherwise life-saving surgery would be wrong. Nor can suicide be a crime against the community because being a hermit is not wrong and suicide just takes this withdrawal from society one step further. Finally, suicide cannot be a crime against the self because the individual knows best what is good for him or her.
     
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