# Sun affecting Earth space-time?

1. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

2. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

3. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

4. Apr 27, 2004

Staff Emeritus
All sound science. All good links. None of it has anything to do with houses or signs or trines.

5. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

Mr.Moderator I already gave the suggestion to step off my back. If you wanna add someting, welcome! But I rather don't discuss with you. I ask if anyone knowing SOMETHING MORE THAN ME IN MANY AREAS. I'm not refering to you, of course. I doubt you could even recognize what I'm talking about which is no houses, trees nor trines. Perhaps you wanna discuss the meaning of Mayas ball game (Ullamalitzli or Pokyan, etc) and the cosmic vision about it, when they were representing a battle of Sun god, Toantiuh, against the Moon, stars representing darkness. Would you? The Mayas, for example, focused for some reason a dark rift in Milky Way. In fact with modern telescopes we know better there are actually both white & black spiral arms in Milky Wah galaxy, or perhaps you shall invite Dr. Kaku to tell us about his interpretation of the Twin brothers descending to Xibalba to challenge gods in ballcourt. Perhaps you understand the many floors on Mayas cosmovision could be interpreted as dimensions.
How come you read so FAST the information I just posted about the Sun made by respected scientists UNLESS YOU'RE A "MODERATOR" (laughs please!) WHO DIDN'T EVEN READ THE SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION BUT JUMP WHAT IS NOT IMPORTANT ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL FAITH????? I won't argue with you, Mr. I expect anyone and I will continue chatting with him (her). You have allowed yourself the power to exercise personal Italian vendetta against my posts, you hide the number of pages, you hide the number of people reading what I post, you move, you erase. WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? That your dogmas fall apart like castle made out of sand? I pity you.

6. Apr 27, 2004

Staff Emeritus
Maya myths are just that. Myths. All your correlations are after the fact and silly. I read the links quickly because I was already aware of what they contain. Gravity Probe B, for example, has been in the works for decades and frame-dragging is a well known prediction of general relativity. The launch of the satellite was well discussed on these boards.

And I will reply when I think a post needs a reply. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.

7. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

Myths are not just myths, Mr. myths can't predict an eclipse with 1000 years anticipation, myths can't use SOPHISTICATED CALENDARS as known by astronomers who I'm quoting even by name, calendars which are exact to seconds. You can post, of course, yet whenever you do it, please use culture and not imbecility ignorance.
A scientist requires more than memorizing formulas, he requires imagination. We have read many times and saw the images in Scientific American and books or other magazines about the deformation of the space, the illustration of the iron ball upon a sheet and the smaller balls been affected by the weigh of the ball on the tissue. No example can really duplicate reality. In this case it’s obvious the “orbits” of smaller balls would stop after a while side by side with the bigger ball. Repeating the experience in space without the effect of gravity (or distant from the Earth whose mass is deforming the space) the iron ball and the rest of balls will float. Kaku imagined the point of view of fishes inside the aquarium if they were taken out from their liquid universe. Hawkings thinks in bubbles connected with other soap bubbles-universes via bridges or wormholes. Hence, I would like to use the “liquid” example and apply this to ourselves just to help Mr. Moderator’s neurons which seem to transport electrochemic energy in wheelchairs.
A blue ping-pong ball represents Earth, other balls are floating in a swimming pool filled with black ink or black paint rather than crystal water. Jupiter can be represented as an orange basketball. You can spread colorful dust above the black liquid surface in your imagination.
Meanwhile, Mr self-centered Moderator-virus dwelling on blue ping-pong ball discusses “you’re talking trees…” and virus-Oscar replies “don’t worry, several virus are already talking about the ‘theory of everything’ cos all is linked to each other, besides some other virus are saying the planet-balls are changing position and are behaving strange just like the big yellow fire-ball Sun”. Virus-Moderator exclaims ‘Prove it!’ Oscar-virus answers: “it’s difficult to know for sure, we have sent our telescopes and satellites which are big and yet in virus-scale and to see what is going on from this corner of the swimming pool is like using a micro-camera in a corner of a baseball stadium, no panoramic comprehension! You can send cesium watches, devices, but the results are gonna be pretty similar to our ping-pong blue ball. When the device is reaching the Sun-ball the virus salute each other watching the things in their virus scale. They take photographs of the “universe”:
http://users.skynet.be/sky03361/html2/trip2.html
You know what, there are other virus saying there’s a hole in the center of the swimming pool and they say it’s actually swallowing liquid black space like virus-actor Hannibal Canibal Anthony Hopkins. I don’t think we’re gonna know for sure how is this thing change our position (and therefore our time as observed in each ball), but I guess we’re approaching to a position in which the acceleration will come due to the whirlpool”. “In fact”, he adds, “it will be like the orbits of the balls are getting too close to each other, closer and closer before entering and be sucked by the swimming pool’s mouth”.
www.nasca.org/uk/danger/danger.html
Mr-Self-Moderator-Respected-Virus answers: “You’re insane, are you stone or something?” “That’s the Great Atractor or group of superclusters (greater than 10^15 solar masses) which is pulling Milky Way (only 15 Mpc in length) towards it at 600,000 mls”. “Yap!, but I’m not talking JUST about the Milky Way, I’m taking about the whole black liquid in the universal swimming pool, the spiral, the Fibonacci, like the virus who’s placed in the first song of the vinyl record and traveling at the same revolutions per minute than the virus placed in the last song, when they start to walk around the axis or center of the vinyl record there are three times, the time of the movement of the record itself (45 revolutions by minute), the long time the virus of the first song requires to walk above the vinyl record to complete a circle, and the shorter time to do the same for the virus who’s walking in the last song in smaller diameter, got it?”
At the very same time the virus-astronauts out from blue ping-pong ball’s ionosphere start to feel awfully bad because the lack of natural pulsation of 7,8 cycles in the same wave of their virus-cerebral masses as Shumann waves, electric storms cause severe damage in their virus-hearts. They get back to ping-pong blue pall to correct some damages in artificial generators of Shumann waves.
Yet, without these virus know, other virus in other part of the blue ping-pong ball are arguing the borders of the swimming pool were made of mirror, so they guess the reflection gave the false impression of a bigger swimming pool with more black ink or black paint liquid space. Somewhere else, the Russian-virus and a fistful of American-virus went beyond and shout: “The swimming pool is not rectangular, circular, or with the shape of a guitar but it seems to be a dodecahedron”.
Oscar-virus continues: “Don’t you worry, country-fellow-virus self-Moderator, we’re probably gonna pass through the whirlpool black hole in the middle of the swimming pool and though millions will perish (too shaky) and there will be survivors cos the black liquid will go into other swimming pool, everything will preserve. Yet the other swimming pool is built in different way and various levels and submitted to currents running in opposite directions. “What? Are you nuts? Don’t you know everything will be collapsed and we will all be transformed into spaguetti-virus stretched by the gravity and supersingularity of that wormhole?”
“Wait a second” –answer an intruder virus- “it all depends if the vehicle blue ping-pong-Earth passes through the ring or border of the hole”…Yet, other virus desperate outcries “no, this ain’t real, it’s just an hologram, in fact every ball and all inhabitant virus of the swimming pool (even the ones existing into our image and resemblance in the balls beyond) are just part of the game of light, the hologram gave the illusion of dodecahedron swimming pool, the black liquid in it, the mirror borders and everything else, if someone who is not light tries to touch the illusion, there will be nothing there and it will pass through the illusion…
A virus in the middle of the conference asks: “what causes the hologram?” Nobody knows and everybody shut up and a silent virus doesn’t even dare to ask if there’s something unique that is not illusion, something in fact REAL, a belt of photons, a crystal or God…and the virus discussion continues ad infinitum…

8. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

9. Apr 27, 2004

### oscar

Mr.Moderator "was already aware" H A- H A- H A !!!! For someone whose interest is in history it seems your knowledge about Mayas culture and codes, astronomy and so on, lies in subparticle level. You're retired and were born in 1933, right? Well Mr, I think you gotta check new books, ok? Gravity Probe B has been in works for decades, of course, WHO IS SAYING THE CONTRARY? What I say is now it's possible to check it in better place and in fact I have posted Einstein's idea was "demonstrated" in the beautiful country where I live, Brazil. I even mentioned the year.

10. Apr 28, 2004

### oscar

My example is just another way to say what physicist Gerald Feinberg from Columbia University explained, and it’s even quoted by Kaku’s “Hyperspace” in chapter 1 in the theme “how to escape from the death of the universe”. The difference is that I think intelligent life already dominates multidimensional space mysteries cos the entities belong to hyperdimensions whether in 100 billions of billions times smaller than a proton in Planck’s dungeons or somewhere else. Sagan didn’t need to find this outside our neighborhood. His friend Hoagland is suspecting we come from Mars but is learning about hyperdimensional math here on Earth and on Mars as well following the same pattern. His friends are beginning to know we gotta search right here in parallel INVISIBLE dimension. Quoting Kaku’s book in chapter 12, perhaps John Wheeler was troubled cos the idea of “angels” (I say hybrid cherubs remembered in all ancient mythology) demanded too much metaphorical baggage to carry. That was his problem. Ether can be unnecessary with Occam’s principle but Einstein never said it didn’t exist, says Kaku. Is in that sense some experiences deserved to be better investigated to discover Kaku’s ideas about hyperdimensions creatures maybe not as he thinks cos he committed the same mistake done by philosopher Xenophanes, to confuse the reflection in the mirror with reality as I explained in “what sort of entities?” in this forum. These experiences since are unrepeated or duplicated in laboratories(like oniric experience, the amnesic world of dreams), are relegated to the field of “paranormal” and yet are perceived by non-squizophrenic people in specific places of the planet, in megaliths where the compasses are affected or you can re-charge batteries upon the stone, in geomagnetic “navels” of the world. Something physicist theorists never had the guts to investigate cos it belong to other areas of interest:
www.cyberspaceorbit.com/kerub.htm
www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magazine/articles/marcahuasi/marcahuasi.html
In Hyperspace, chapter 6, Kaku uses the clay metaphor applied to matter but if I use the Biblical book of Job to say the writer uses the same clay comparing the rotation of the Earth as clay shaped by the hands of an artisan he says my example is “religious”. I also said the word “rope” or “string” is related to Orion and Pleiads in the same biblical book of Job and also the context indicates a reference to “measures”. In fact the same people always gave importance to literal use of ropes or strings with knots for various uses.Prior to that, in chapter 5, Kaku mentions GUTs explaining how the scholars enjoy “labeling” or using the “seal” of Greek names upon subatomic particles without having the slightest idea about where the symmetries came from in first place! In chapter 4, he wrote about Einstein’s idea about TIME with the example of a car running through to 159,99999 km per hour, we would never perceived the deceleration of the speed cos our brains are affected.
Yet, getting back to my example, I said we could well be deceived ignoring the ticking of time in every ball floating in the petroleum-like substance of the swimming pool. WE DON’T NEED TO APPROACH THAT FANTASTIC SPEED OF LIGHT TO BE FOOLED cos we already measured with 4 cesium clocks in airplanes Boing 707 (flying at 10 km height) and Concorde (at 20 km height) in their flight around the world compared with the cesium clocks set in Navy Observatory in Washington, D.C. The Hafele & Keating experience proved the time was affected. The more the distance from Earth, the less attraction of gravity (or deformation of the space caused by the mass of the Earth); the more gravity (or deformation of space) the times dilates or gets slower. On the Moon, the ticking went faster cos the gravity of the Moon (or the deformity of the space caused by the mass of the satellite) is smaller than the Earth. That means exactly what? THAT OUR BRAINS CAN BE DECEIVED RIGHT NOW WITHOUT NEEDING TO APPROACH THE SPEED OF LIGHT if actually there are some changes in the whole Milky Way and the whole universe. We’re unconscious like DEAD FRAMES in a film, a videotape which is probably running “forward” (or “rewind”) by Someone’s remote control… “something” for the skeptical who hates the title “god” used by Newton, Einstein, Kaku and Hawkings.
In chapter 7, Kaku mentions Edward Witten from Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey, who, besides knowing theoretical physics, knows history and linguistic. Hence, I wrote a personal letter to him saying he could in fact learn ancient knowledge of Incas & Hebrews. Kaku, on the other hand, the only time he mentioned the Aztecs was in a reference of how they reacted to Spaniard civilization comparing that to our panic in contact with civilization type III. Yet, he recognizes the Aztec had dominium in science, art and technology which astonished even the Spaniards, something well known by historians but ignorant Moderator considered “nothing” and obviously disregards. I wonder who placed him here as Moderator? Must be a friend of his unaware of his cultural limitations and narrow minded L7 attitude. So, this Edward and not Self..who? would be interested in the works of Gary Urton, professor of anthropology in Harvard, someone who has studied 450 of the 600 QUIPUS (ropes with knots used by Incas) available in museums. Incas used a binary code with 1536 separated unites, using the sacred number 7 of several civilizations, as a base. The Sumerian scrpture also used 1500 signs. The mnemotechnique system was also used by Hebrew priests (tzit tzit in Hebrew language), to remember the 613 laws of the Torah or “mitzvots”. It seems Chinese and Etruscan also used similar systems. They indeed had a written language surprising the linguists and philologists cos they realized there was no evolution of the simple languages imitating the sound of animals but in fact complicated languages (Chinese once had 50.000 ideograms) with archetypical, numeral and alphabetic meaning at the same time, etc. Mr. Moderator doesn’t believe in myths, only physics myths. In cocky attitude he doesn’t even think in the fact the Incas have always used the Quechua word “pacha” meaning both space-time and that in their cosmic-vision there’s no before or after but inside-outside. Hence, we’re dealing again with the problem of space-time being affected.
Is it the mass of the Sun altering the deformation of the space so little Earth orbits around it in it’s particular ticking? If that is the case, the question goes beyond, is the Sun affected by a change in the position of the Milky Way? How does the Milky Way is affected in it’s own ticking if it is moving in other direction in the unknown vacuum blackness & nothingness?

11. Apr 28, 2004

Staff Emeritus
1. Perfectly true that the relativistic effects do not cut off at low speeds, but are with us at our every day speeds.

2. You say
Mr. Moderator doesn’t believe in myths, only physics myths. In cocky attitude he doesn’t even think in the fact the Incas have always used the Quechua word “pacha” meaning both space-time and that in their cosmic-vision there’s no before or after but inside-outside. Hence, we’re dealing again with the problem of space-time being affected.

How do you know this Quechua word means "spacetime" ? Have they found Minkowski diagrams at Macchu Picchu? Do the quipus encode $$\sqrt{1 - v^2/c^2}$$? Or is it just some fantasy by a scholar who knows the word means vaguely inside-outside or something and has heard about spacetime? I don't ignore your stuff because I'm ignorant of history but because you haven't provided the first hint of real evidence that all your fine assertions are more than foolishness.

12. Apr 28, 2004

### oscar

I don't have to provide evidence to someone who admits is perfectly ignorant. That's why I QUOTE for anyone interested to check and see by himself what you consider "foolish". I mention names, books and sites, specific information. Whenever you wanna say something is foolish you use the same old tactic used by irritated people who make general statements not providing a single explanation of WHY and WHAT they consider something absurd. The only one showing himself the size of your igorance and lack of arguments and "scientific data" here is you. Let the readers keep on reading you!
It's pretty obvious Incas won't write the formula and I already explained the reasons you choose to ignore. I know pretty well the meaning of Quechua word cos that is the language spoken by more than half % of the population IN MY OWN COUNTRY. So, are you gonna teach ME what you ignore? Probaby you are those kind of imbecils don't know where is your own country and you wanna teach me linguistic and history????
Now, your narrow minded stupidity goes to stratosphere taking about the fantasy of a scholar you never CARED to investigate and yet you admit ignore! Please, do us a favor, write a personal letter to him to the University, contact him by e-mail and tell him with ANTICIPATION to any checking of his work, that he is someone writing fantastic things! What an idiot you are! You keep coming with magnified lens specially to my postings. Wowawaw! Let the readers know the behavior of a retired person 71 years old. Mr. you're letting aging take account of your neurons and personality. Allow someone else the task to be a Moderator.
http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/urtsig.html
Please read in the site it says "comparisons between computers and khipus may hold an important clue to deciphering Inka record" and "physical features that constitute binary coded sequences (either/or choices), units of information in a system of binary record keeping". Allow yourself not to critize with anticipation what you perfectly and admitedly ignore. Check yourself and you will know by yourself the computer exercises were already made both with Quechua language of the Incas and specially with Aymara of the people from Bolivia who also used the quipus/khipus. Don't ask for evidences not even scientists can provide!!!! HA-HA-HA!
Yet, I'm not that naïve. You won't do any research cos you already jump the information lying and saying you already knew or just ignore what you already considered irrelevant. You're light-years distance from having a scientific mind. In fact, your brain already started a Big Rip it seems quite a while already.
No, I'll better ignore future comments coming from such a wise man.

13. Apr 28, 2004

### oscar

You say I haven't provided hints. It seems to me I already mentioned SEVERAL hints. But with such an attitude, if I show you a photograph from Soho showing the Sun is indeed changing as it was foretold by scientists who I have quoted BY NAME, of course you're gonna deny and say those photographs are wrong, those scientists are morons and you'll choose your favorite ...evidence?...no, your favorite information even without wanting to invest time to investigate before your mouth says something and your fingers type something! CLAP-CLAP-CLAP! Welcome to flatlander brains universe!

14. Apr 28, 2004

### oscar

Bt the way, idiot, explain to us why did you hide in my theme "Moses or Hawkings Big Bang?" (THEORY OF EVERYTHING) both the number of replies and views besides moving the subject and delating another? Are you afraid someone reads me? What for? If I'm an ignorant who's not providing evidence whatsoever and in fact you have demonstrated your grandiloquence wisdom with tons of scientific evidence, why don't you let the people know more about your own replies? Hmmm? Answer me, Moderator! I know, in your own judgment you have decided to eliminate in a casual way, subtle way, little by little until one of these days you're not gonna be able to tolerate me and wwwoooop! The Oscar-problem will be deleted, eliminated, wiped out. Good thing, please do it -I beg you- and you shall prove with solid evidence the limits of your thought before the readers.

15. Apr 28, 2004

### studentx

Maybe im missing something but what are you trying to prove Oscar? And where is the math behind it?

16. Apr 28, 2004

### sol2

Over the years that I have known self Adjoint, he has been a grounding force in my conversations. Has remained open in our conversations about legitamite processes and avenues of exploration.

Oscar, I see you have a tremendous amount of knowledge in regards to some of these issues. You must accept the fact that even though we can be gifted with the insights from historical distilliation, we must always come back to the nature and testing of this reality.

I myself am given the historical nature ( its a large amount of data) as well, and in respect to consciousness, it has forced me to question how we might "tune into the nature of reality", and view, "historical events" without ruining this perception with subjective statements ( math is a language that keeps its consistancy). I feel strongly about this connection, and romance with our forbears and what has lead us to where we are.

If anything, be respectful of the questions and responses when given. I suspect your time is short here if this kind of exchange continues. Put aside personal opinions ,and move to the nature of what might have been understood from this historical perspective. Marry it to current structures, to see if paradigmal changes allow one a new perception? Of what we might have missed from our current knowledge of history.

Mathematically this would have merit to information being offered.

Last edited: Apr 28, 2004
17. Apr 28, 2004

### oscar

Sol2: I'm respectful with the ones who are respectful. You didn't have arguing with Moderator for two reasons, you write in stylish manner cos that's the way you are and behave with everybody in every post. It's almost subliminal. I like it. It ain't easy to understand sometimes. And the second reason is cos you have avoid confrontation as corresponds to a wise man. Myself, on the other hand, try to be as honest and simple for everybody to understand. I t doesn't mean that I succeed all the time, but I try. And I want to make evident that even in science we can follow the path of math ad infinitum with all the theories I have already described and yet no universal conclusions. It's enough to see the contradictory ideas of this forum. I could ASK questions rather than presenting my point of view and I garantee the result of my questions will exasperate some readers. I could ask, which formulas are you gonna accept for the unique truth? The formulas saying gravitons exist or the formulas saying gravity is just an illusion, the formulas accepting a Big Crunch future or a Big Rip, the formulas saying the universe is expanding or the formulas saying the was a misunderstanding of the redshift and it's also an illusion of the curvature of the cosmos; the formulas saying the universe is Crisp chip potatoe or the ones suggesting a saddle form, a multilayer cosmos, bubbles, trumpet, flat, donut, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.... Which formula you want like ingredient for special chocolate, the formulas saying there's no time or the formulas admiting the contrary, the formulas of 10 or more dimensions and so on... The theme here opened by me it's not about unending or everlasting formulas even cos Kaku himself and Einstein admited you can easily play with numbers and "force" them to look anyway you want it. Kaku even explained the example of natural beautiful cheetah which looses its grace completely inside the "cage" formulas. So, even a real scientist needs to be humble and allow himself to see the nature of the "inspiration" as Ramanujam did. He was humble enough to admit in spite all his knowledge he wasn't interested in that but in the thought and comprehension of God, so did Einstein. But what do we see here? We see a cynical attitude and sometimes a real desire to comprehend what is the other person trying to say. That's why I decided not to argue more with Mr. Moderator who's been behaving like my shadow, acting like judge, witness, attorney at the same time. I hope I can have patience.

18. Apr 28, 2004

### sol2

So, even a real scientist needs to be humble and allow himself to see the nature of the "inspiration" as Ramanujam did. He was humble enough to admit in spite all his knowledge he wasn't interested in that but in the thought and comprehension of God, so did Einstein.

This is a important statement to me.

Not all I agree, like to think that all could have risen from such a source. But to me, what lies beneath is an important question about what can make it into todays world. We each bring some of this with us, and sometimes we spend a lifetime trying to explain it

In the chapter An omaly and the Emergence of Scientific Discoveries, Kuhn discusses the experiment conducted by Bruner and Postman concerning anomalous playing cards, and how people do not like things which do not fit into the paradigms they know, and therefore they of ten disregard them and make them into something which is not anomalous. This is why anomalies in science are often overlooked, and it is not until a crisis becomes apparent that paradigms begin to shift to new (not to say "correct") paradigms and scienti fic theories.

This is really the crux of Kuhn's theses - at least for the first half of the book. (We are reminded of James Burke and his discussion of why we see the dalmation in the picture, and why it seems wrong now to burn witches when it seemed so right to the people centuries ago - people accept what fits into the paragidms they know and believe.)

When we become aware of the anomalies in nature, it definitely shatters some of the preconcieved ideas of the world we have created. There is a conduct becoming here?

Some like to think that at such a source in the one inch equation will speak to all that exists? We can hope to find such a source, as touching God? And from it the word?

There has to be a common language and in this math helps to orientate some consistancy to the world view. If you did not have this what would we do? Some understand the distilliation process very well in the world of concepts, and sometimes, we can see the thinkers face on how they progressed their own ideas from those before?

Last edited: Apr 28, 2004
19. Apr 29, 2004

### oscar

One of the sites you quoted has a magnificent drawing by Ecker (I think that's the correct spelling but I'm not sure) though his name is not mentioned. That guy really was connected with hyperdimensions.
Information about the Sun. There's a version calculated by computers of the cycle of sunspots in 96 microcycles of magnetic activity happening in the Sun each 187 years (the 97th cycle leads to an even longer of 18.139 years). The sequence of 96 cycles was known by ancient civilizations worshipping the Sun. In Palenque palace of the Mayas, for example, there's the place with 96 cycles where Lord Pacal was buried in a tomb. Exactly the same cryptographic code is found in Tutankamon's tomb and Lord of Sipan in Peru.

20. Apr 29, 2004

### oscar

Every 30 million years, the planet Earth enters th emost ticktly packed areas of Solar System, yet around 1 million years displaced comets and asteroids make their way through to us. It's already passed 1 million years since the last catastrophe. Gamma Ray Burst maybe linked to Black Holes releasing fireballs of energy into high pressure jet which in turn create shock waves that lead formation of gamma rays. The last 40 years our Sun has been getting stronger compared with previous 250 years, the last century it's been doubling the strenght of Sun magnetic fields.