Sure god is great but what has he ever done for me?

  • #1
The Grimmus
200
0
I am just wondering if anyone knows of any supernatural aka Mircales being performed or occurring. I ask this wondering if god is all powerful why dosent he do soemthing... i would. What could possable be preocupiing the guy...unless he has another universe, that 2 timing...
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
Eh, depends on your beliefs. My parents are the type that see miracles all the time. For example, recently a friend of ours had one of their kids get into an accident. The kid was 7. The doctors said, "She has less than a 1% chance of living." Well, she lived. So, my parents, of course, said that God performed a miracle on the kid.

I am not one of those types.

I see God as a being who created everything and then let's us go about our lives. It could be that we are an experiment of some type. If you create an experiment, you don't poke around in it, because you'd change the results.
 
  • #3
Originally posted by The Grimmus
I am just wondering if anyone knows of any supernatural aka Mircales being performed or occurring. I ask this wondering if god is all powerful why dosent he do soemthing... i would. What could possable be preocupiing the guy...unless he has another universe, that 2 timing...
Hey, you get some time off in the spring and winter, don't you?
 
  • #4
hypnagogue
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
2,277
2
If God exists in the omniscient/omnipotent sense, then it's really a meaningless question to wonder about his/her/its motives. It's a commonly accepted idea, for instance, that if us humans were to ever be contacted by an alien race, then this race would be advanced so far beyond us (by virtue of their ability to visit us across the vast reaches of space, which implies a society much more ancient and technologically/intellectually sophisticated than our own) that the gap between our intelligence and the aliens' would be comparable to the gap between our intelligence and ant intelligence. If we could not possibly hope to understand the motives of a race that is only finitely more advanced than our own, then how could we possibly hope to understand the motives of a God who is by definition infinitely more advanced than us?
 
  • #5
FoxNax
15
0
There is a new series coming on in the UK, I think it's called Joan of Arcadia and I was watching the trailer.
Joan asked God to prove he was God and do something, he pointed out a tree and she said, it's just a tree(or something like that) and he simply replied, i'd like to see you make one.
I think this is very true. I see miracles all around me, not the massive things but just the little things, like trees and flowers. Yes, let's say science but there is still this ultimate question of how and why in the first place.
 
  • #6
loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
1,802
5
How is pretty much taken care of, making possible an infinitely lazy creator. Why is a question that has no meaning in a universe without intelligent life, as ours likely was at its inception.
 
  • #7
Janitor
Science Advisor
1,107
1
I listen to Christian radio and TV now and then. A local radio preacher tells of how a preacher friend of his lost his finger in an accident, and "God grew him a new finger, oh Hallelujah!" Also, the preacher told of how his wife once had "a black thing on her tongue, like a shoestring." They prayed about it, and God supernaturally removed the thing.

Trinity Broadcasting TV, which is available in many parts of the world, is a good source for anecdotes of miracles. The hostess, Jan Crouch, told of how TBN sent boxes of toys to poor kids in Haiti. The way Jan tells the story, 2,000 toys were sent, and 6,000 kids showed up at the event where the toys were to be handed out. Just as the 6,000th child got to the boxes and grabbed hers, the last of the toys was finally gone. Jan, tears streaking her mascara, explained it as a miracle comparable to Jesus multiplying bread and fish to feed the multitude back in New Testament times.
 
Last edited:
  • #8
loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
1,802
5
If some dude prayed and grew a new finger, then I might be persuaded of the possibility of miracles.
 
  • #9
Janitor
Science Advisor
1,107
1
I agree. But I would have to witness it myself. I would never take the word of a radio preacher for it.
 
  • #10
olde drunk
527
0
hey, you woke up this morning! aren't you miracle enuff?

you are alive and able to feel, create and have fun.

what more do you need?

love&peace
olde drunk
 
  • #11
Nicomachus
129
0
If you think a miracle has occurred or is occurring or will occur then you need to rethink your position on your own sanity and ability to effectively cognize.
*Nico
 
  • #12
PookieBuns
4
0
Let me first tell you all that I am a Christian. That being said, I have a difficult time believing that someone grew a new finger! You got to realize that there has been a lot of deception and perversion that has done quite a bit to dilute the truth of the gospels. And this has progressed for centuries. What I am not saying is that you cannot trust what you read in the bible. Rather that it is good practice to not accept questionable biblical doctrines as the truth and you should investigate for yourself what the bible says.
Now, I do believe that miracles occur, and maybe in fact someone did grow a new finger. But like any other account, I tend to determine the credibility of the person who is claiming such miracles before believing them as truth. I know that one person's definition of a miracle may be different from another person's so for the sake of this argument let's define it as "An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God." We all have heard of accounts of doctors having no explanation of a sudden healing, etc. Some say it’s a miracle, others say it’s a coincidence. It all depends on your spiritual beliefs.

I want to respond to hypnagogue's comment. I will respond in two parts aliens and god. Regarding the aliens, it is not inconceivable that such an advanced society could be no more than a few hundred years ahead of us. For example, say you take our two worlds (aliens and ours), put them on the same timeline and start us off with the same technologies. Go! Think of where our society would be at in terms of technology if we never experience the dark ages...Look at the rate of the advancement of technology and science in the past 200 years. We have seen exponential advancement and just think how much faster we could advance if we actually had a trusted and workable unified theory? Given all of that, imagine where we could be in 300 years or where we could have been. I don't find it that far-fetched that we could have technologies equivalent to what we now perceive as 'alien'. I see hints of such technologies all the time in popular science and technology magazines. Hypnagogue, you said "If we could not possibly hope to understand the motives of a race that is only finitely more advanced than our own, then how could we possibly hope to understand the motives of a God who is by definition infinitely more advanced than us?" My response to you is this, the way to understand god is simple. He left us a written account of his motives, the bible. Furthermore, the bible says that he created us in his own image, so what is the one thing that we as humans desire more than anything else (other than the basic necessities of survival)? Companionship, relationship, interaction, love, etc. That is what the bible means by he made us in his own image. From a Christian perspective, that is why god made us in the first place. He wanted children.
 
Last edited:
  • #13
Ethanol
12
0
Offspring

Pookiebuns i appreciate you believe in God and I too believe that God created us in his own image but I disagree with the last point of yours. God did not create us because He wanted children. Biological studies convey that animals have offspring for the survival of their species and so is the case of humans. Consider if God has children then that means God is mortal like us. But a true believer knows that he isn't.God does not need any children. He can control the world all by himself. A child is always known by his parents' name and if u believe God wants children then it means he wants His chilren to carry on after him (curse my language on what i say).God is not going to die . He created humans for His worship and to help others in their matter whether it be religious or moral. If you want more assurance you could study Quraan.And bible is illuminating too.
 
  • #14
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
8,010
1,010
I think nearly any genuine miracle could be denied and or twisted into a statistical anomaly. What is the difference between a one in a trillion and a miracle? When are the odds of an event too long to be attributed to a chance?

I once asked a debunker what it would take to convince him that ET is here. He said that nothing could – it’s not possible. “What if a flying saucer landed in the parking lot and ET invited you in and took you for a ride”, I asked - just trying to establish his limits. “I would assume that I’m hallucinating” he responded. My point here is not about ET, it is about choices. Clearly this person chooses what he will and won’t believe.

When we see the spontaneous remission of disease where according to all that we know, we shouldn’t, or when we hear of a mystical voice that guides a mother and her children through a burning building, or as happened some years ago when we find that an entire classroom of children report that an angel appeared and saved them all from a bomb that exploded in their classroom, we are left with a choice to believe in miracles or not. No logic can ever resolve the question. In the end it is just a matter of choice - to believe or not. This is also a recurring theme in biblical teachings.
 
  • #15
Entropy
478
0
Pointing things out you just assume are mircles or works of God can be dangerous. What if that man how grew a new finger turned out to be the next Hitler? Then all of a sudden its the work of Satan that have him a new finger! Or what if it was a new medical treatment that saved his finger? Maybe God helped the doctor who invented that treatment? Who knows?

The fact that you are alive right now shows what God has done for you. The fact is that nothing "deserves" to live. The only reason anything is alive is due to undeserved kindness from God.
 
  • #16
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
8,010
1,010
What I am saying is that in many cases, eventually it can only be by choice that we believe or not. There is no logical answer. Unless the heavens open and God comes down on his flaming chariots there can always be skepticism, or faith. Each position can be logically justified. The same applies to human testimony. Since we can't know, by definition we choose to believe or not.

Next, I don't think concerns about Hitlers apply to most people.
 
Last edited:
  • #17
olde drunk
527
0
Entropy said:
Pointing things out you just assume are mircles or works of God can be dangerous. What if that man how grew a new finger turned out to be the next Hitler? Then all of a sudden its the work of Satan that have him a new finger! Or what if it was a new medical treatment that saved his finger? Maybe God helped the doctor who invented that treatment? Who knows?

The fact that you are alive right now shows what God has done for you. The fact is that nothing "deserves" to live. The only reason anything is alive is due to undeserved kindness from God.
what if there is no god or satan, in the traditional sense? they simply maybe words to label positive and negative idols.

what if people that believe they can alter their reality, really do and those that don't believe, can't??

while many eastern teachers use existing laws of physics to do amazing, non-miraculous feats, there are abilities demonstrated that the western world still refuses to accept.

the only thing that we need to address is the fact that we are here and we might as well enjoy the trip.

love&peace,
olde drunk
 
  • #18
Entropy
478
0
what if there is no god or satan, in the traditional sense? they simply maybe words to label positive and negative idols.

This thread isn't to debate the existence of God or Satan. Its to discuss why God allows bad things to happen. If you are trying to disprove the existence of God and/or Satan there are other threads for that.

while many eastern teachers use existing laws of physics to do amazing, non-miraculous feats, there are abilities demonstrated that the western world still refuses to accept.

State some then.
 
  • #19
Leong
382
2
The Grimmus said:
I am just wondering if anyone knows of any supernatural aka Mircales being performed or occurring. I ask this wondering if god is all powerful why dosent he do soemthing... i would. What could possable be preocupiing the guy...unless he has another universe, that 2 timing...

i believe that is why most people are atheist now. why doesn't the god do something ? they pray and hope but nothing happens and they decide not to hurt anymore.
 
  • #20
olde drunk
527
0
Entropy said:
This thread isn't to debate the existence of God or Satan. Its to discuss why God allows bad things to happen. If you are trying to disprove the existence of God and/or Satan there are other threads for that.


State some then.
the best example i can think of that would withstand scientific scrutiny is the National Geo. show on Tibetian monks.

these monks, high in the mountains, go out overnight, in sandals and light (cotton?) robes and radiate steam at below freezing temperatures.

also, the oriental Chi masters are healing by adjusting a persons Chi. they do not touch the person, rather they massage the area around the person.

is this god healing or preventing freezing? or is it a function of the individual beliefs? or did god give them better information?

personally, the miracle of life is miracle enough. gimme life and turn me loose. what more could i or anyone want?

love&peace,
olde drunk
 
  • #21
False Prophet
85
0
The "blood moon" was a miracle that freaked out ancient people, but now we know it's just a lunar eclipse.

Fire was a "miracle" to the cavemen, because I'm sure they couldn't explain it within their understanding of the laws of nature, so therefore it must be supernatural.

Maybe consider one of these events regarded as miracles less in terms of what we know, and more in terms of what we don't know.

Maybe there's an explanation for everything. Maybe one day we'll be so advanced that there are no more miracles.
 
  • #22
Matter
13
0
False Prophet said:
The "blood moon" was a miracle that freaked out ancient people, but now we know it's just a lunar eclipse.

Fire was a "miracle" to the cavemen, because I'm sure they couldn't explain it within their understanding of the laws of nature, so therefore it must be supernatural.

Maybe consider one of these events regarded as miracles less in terms of what we know, and more in terms of what we don't know.

Maybe there's an explanation for everything. Maybe one day we'll be so advanced that there are no more miracles.
I hope that never happens! Then we would have nothing to chat about!
 
  • #23
False Prophet
85
0
Don't worry, it will only affect your great grandkid's generation. By then there will be such advanced virtual reality video games that no one cares that there's nothing to chat about.
 
  • #24
nasrin
12
0
Entropy said:
This thread isn't to debate the existence of God or Satan. Its to discuss why God allows bad things to happen. If you are trying to disprove the existence of God and/or Satan there are other threads for that.



State some then.

very interesting topic why God allows bad things to happen. God does not allows bad things to happen at all, but it is US human being who does it since God gave us choice to do things and intellect to think. some of us use it bad way and some of us don't. however God may decree a bad thing to happen only to teach a lesson from that incident but hardly people get it, or not all people get the lesson. they only misunderstand and go on doing things the way they like. Also, it is satan who force us to do things. if you ask why God allowed him to do that because God already freed him and gave him full freedom to do anything he wishes.
 
  • #25
nasrin
12
0
False Prophet said:
The "blood moon" was a miracle that freaked out ancient people, but now we know it's just a lunar eclipse.

Fire was a "miracle" to the cavemen, because I'm sure they couldn't explain it within their understanding of the laws of nature, so therefore it must be supernatural.

Maybe consider one of these events regarded as miracles less in terms of what we know, and more in terms of what we don't know.

Maybe there's an explanation for everything. Maybe one day we'll be so advanced that there are no more miracles.

"blood moon" miracle. i never heard of such miracle in my whole life and never heard anyone even talking about around me. what's that miracle about? funny title though.
 
  • #26
nasrin
12
0
olde drunk said:
the best example i can think of that would withstand scientific scrutiny is the National Geo. show on Tibetian monks.

these monks, high in the mountains, go out overnight, in sandals and light (cotton?) robes and radiate steam at below freezing temperatures.

also, the oriental Chi masters are healing by adjusting a persons Chi. they do not touch the person, rather they massage the area around the person.

is this god healing or preventing freezing? or is it a function of the individual beliefs? or did god give them better information?

personally, the miracle of life is miracle enough. gimme life and turn me loose. what more could i or anyone want?

love&peace,
olde drunk

your saying the mircale of life is miracle enough is very true. i think our life and structure of body and way it functions are more miraculous than anything else or maybe not.

you guys ask very lovely questions here but i don't see any lovely answers though. all of you just present each of your points of view and those points of view doesn't really answer the question itself but leads to other questions and so on.

i wish you guys could ask some of these questions in here and here what they say about it. www.islam-qa.com click english to go to english page and know the date of question to submit. or ask them to open a page for such debate there and let them answer of these questions. it would be nice i think.
 
  • #27
False Prophet
85
0
nasrin said:
"blood moon" miracle. i never heard of such miracle in my whole life and never heard anyone even talking about around me. what's that miracle about? funny title though.

When some people in ancient cultures saw a lunar eclipse, they literally believed that the red color was blood. Here are two articles which reference this:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/lunar_lore_000118.html

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3404517/

If you don't want to read the articles, here are two excerpts from them, listed respectively.

"The dark-blood color of most lunar eclipses bolsters the idea that the Moon is being eaten, with "blood" spreading across its face."

"Some believed a dragon of the sky was eating the moon, flooding it with blood before consuming it entirely."

Or, you can look in the bible:

Joel 2:31 : "The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and dreadful day of the Lord"

That passage references both a solar and a lunar eclipse, both of which caused great fright among ancient people, often seen as bad omens.

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
 
  • #28
nasrin
12
0
False Prophet said:
When some people in ancient cultures saw a lunar eclipse, they literally believed that the red color was blood. Here are two articles which reference this:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/lunar_lore_000118.html

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3404517/

If you don't want to read the articles, here are two excerpts from them, listed respectively.

"The dark-blood color of most lunar eclipses bolsters the idea that the Moon is being eaten, with "blood" spreading across its face."

"Some believed a dragon of the sky was eating the moon, flooding it with blood before consuming it entirely."

Or, you can look in the bible:

Joel 2:31 : "The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and dreadful day of the Lord"

That passage references both a solar and a lunar eclipse, both of which caused great fright among ancient people, often seen as bad omens.

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
well, thank you for the information. and i did not say it did not exist or something like that.
when i was a kid, i heard some stories like this from one of my cousin, and i took them as stories and has no believe in them though.
about the words of the bible, i don't know about it much, but i can't believe in that for there are words in the bible written by human being. so, it is hard to know which one of the verse is from God and which one is from human being. so, that's done there.
 
  • #29
eringj
5
0
Possible reason why God lays low

It's possible the existence of God is incompatable with evidence for the existence of God. This is adapted from Kant:

1.With solid proof of God's existence, we would be irresistibly attracted to do right.
2.If we were irresistibly attracted to do right, we would have no free will.
_______________________________________________________________
(therefore)
3.If we have free will, we can have no solid proof of God's existence


So if you believe God wishes us to have free will, you have an out!
(As it happens, I don't believe; but I still love this argument)
 
  • #30
False Prophet
85
0
With #1, wouldn't there be some people who, although knowing he exists, still don't like God. Or decide to rebel or make a statement knowing they're going to hell or whatever punishment that God says will happen to them? Wouldn't making the choice to be rightous in light of this evidence still be your own decision?

I think Kant means that the nature of who God is must be so enchanting when discovered, like a lure no mind can refrain from, like a magic spell that traps everyone and destroys their volition. Then it makes sense.
 

Suggested for: Sure god is great but what has he ever done for me?

  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
161
Replies
8
Views
511
Replies
8
Views
343
Replies
70
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
280
Replies
11
Views
781
  • Last Post
Replies
12
Views
261
Replies
3
Views
292
Top