Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Sweden Bans Creationism / ID

  1. Oct 15, 2007 #1
    I'm from Sweden and I'd though that this would be interesting for the global community.

    http://www.thelocal.se/8790/20071015/

    http://www.dagen.se/dagen/Article.aspx?ID=143564 (Swedish, but translated above)

    http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1042&a=704437 (Swedish, but translated above)

    http://www.dagen.se/dagen/Article.aspx?ID=143546 (Swedish, but translated above)

    It is all over the news.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 15, 2007 #2
    that clears things up.....


    Bush isn't a Swede
     
  4. Oct 15, 2007 #3

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Wow, imagine that, schools being required to actually teach real science.
     
  5. Oct 15, 2007 #4

    D H

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    No way that would fly here. Public schools, yes. However, I take this as mandating what is taught in private schools as well. That is a bit too intrusive for my tastes. BTW, I'm an agnostic, so I do not have any axe to grind here.
     
  6. Oct 15, 2007 #5
    Independent faith schools in Sweden may be privately owned, but they are largely funded by the government. The country also has a national education standard that apply to all schools.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2007
  7. Oct 15, 2007 #6

    Moonbear

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I wish we had a similar standard here. I have no problem with religious schools teaching religious beliefs, but I have a problem with them handicapping their students by teaching them religious beliefs are science (or any other subject other than religion).
     
  8. Oct 15, 2007 #7

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I have no problem with comparative religion or teaching factual information about religious belief, just as we teach or study different political, sociological or economic systems, philosophies and practices.

    I do have a problem of people teaching specific beliefs as being THE one and only true belief exclusive of other beliefs, and I do have a problem with mysticism or mythology taught as being the reality.

    And in no way should religion be taught in the public classroom as an alternative to science.
     
  9. Oct 15, 2007 #8

    Hurkyl

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Agreed. But nor should religion be excised from a Science class, or any other class. A religous person has additional educational needs; for example, a political science course in a religious school ought to address the religious issues in civic participation. And if their dogma leads them to significantly different a priori beliefs on some topics, a science class should (properly!) discuss where and how Bayesian inference would lead them to different conclusions than the mainstream.
     
  10. Oct 16, 2007 #9

    EL

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    PZ Myers "Needs more Swedes":
    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/10/needs_more_swedes.php




    More comments on Panda'sThumb:
    http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/10/sweden-bans-bio.html

     
  11. Oct 16, 2007 #10

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Not for mine. I see little difference between preaching religious dogma to children and raising them on a daily dose of crack cocaine - both cause long-term damage to the brain.
     
  12. Oct 16, 2007 #11

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    The difficulty here is the wide variety of religious axioms that you'd have to separately cover. The Young Earth Creationist, the Scientologist, the Mormon...will all need different arguments.
     
  13. Oct 16, 2007 #12

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Then you clearly know very little about crack cocaine.
     
  14. Oct 16, 2007 #13

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Okay, I was being a little facetious. But only a little. :wink:

    Would it make you happier if I replaced the crack cocaine with a heavy knock on the head?
     
  15. Oct 16, 2007 #14

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Many of the goups out there are terrifying; even speaking as someone who attended a Catholic school and has been very religious. But, yes, having watched people go down on drugs, I found that statement pretty offensive [philosphically speaking].

    We had one hour of religion each day and the rest was spent doing the basics. We also got a better education [including science and math] than did most kids in the public schools, which is primarily why my parents scrimped and scraped to send us there [there were no tax credits back then]. All in all I would have to say that it was a positive experience.

    Evolution was taught without equivocation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2007
  16. Oct 16, 2007 #15

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Having seen young, pliable minds (incredibly wonderful things, IMO) being destroyed by indoctrination, I find any downplaying of such "murder" pretty offensive.
     
  17. Oct 16, 2007 #16

    ZapperZ

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Education Advisor

    As far as I know, the catholic schools here in the Chicago Archdioceses do not teach creationism/ID in their biology classes.

    And while this is not strictly on-topic, in case anyone missed this, you might want to read this preprint that appeared today on ArXiv (actually, it appeared late last night). It reports on a class for science educators on the consideration of whether ID is a science or not. However, that isn't the important aspect, because once everyone understood what "science" is and what ID is, everyone was unanimous in proclaiming that ID isn't a science. What is more important and disturbing is that a small percentage of the participant still, even after acknowledging that ID isn't a science, that it still should be taught in a science class as an "alternative"!

    As the report indicated, it is difficult to reconcile with this inconsistency.

    Zz.
     
  18. Oct 16, 2007 #17

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Do you mean any religion, or just the fundamentalists and cults.
     
  19. Oct 16, 2007 #18

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    http://www.urban.org/publications/411143.html

    What a bunch of crack addicts. Someone must have hit them in the head! :biggrin:
     
  20. Oct 16, 2007 #19

    Hurkyl

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Why would a Catholic school have to cover those?
     
  21. Oct 16, 2007 #20

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Oops, guess I misinterpreted what you said. In any case, do you honestly expect say, a Catholic school, to stand by the standards you've set for it? Do you think a majority of them currently do?

    And to Ivan, yes, the large part of the Earth's population has been hit on the head repeatedly. A tiny fraction of these people have recovered.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2007
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Sweden Bans Creationism / ID
  1. Sweden vs Paraguay (Replies: 6)

  2. England vs Sweden (Replies: 13)

  3. Germany vs Sweden (Replies: 2)

Loading...