Swirl push maker DIY

  • #26
JBA
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If the rotational resistance is low then a rubber wheel might work as well.
 
  • #27
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If the rotational resistance is low then a rubber wheel might work as well.
A rubber friction drive was the suggestion I made in the earlier posts. The rotation resistance is very low since the table is just attached to a shaft that is in a sleeve in the support arm.

Oh I see. You mean as a cam wheel ...that might work but it will not give positive displacement. That might be a good refinement to look at however.
 
  • #28
JBA
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I am well aware of all of your efforts on this project. I have been following this thread for some time and watching the ideas build and develop and in watching the motor driven turntable and translation travel develop there was just this little bug in the back of my mind that something basic was not being discussed; and, when I returned to the thread earlier today, I finally I realized what that something was.
If necessary to insure the grip of a rubber wheel the a yoke with the driving wheel on the bottom of the rotating table and a an idler wheel above it on the top of the table might be used.
I am concerned that adding the necessary programmed motor systems to do what this simple system can do will much more complicated to develop and more expensive as well.
 
  • #29
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83
I am well aware of all of your efforts on this project. I have been following this thread for some time and watching the ideas build and develop and in watching the motor driven turntable and translation travel develop there was just this little bug in the back of my mind that something basic was not being discussed; and, when I returned to the thread earlier today, I finally I realized what that something was.
If necessary to insure the grip of a rubber wheel the a yoke with the driving wheel on the bottom of the rotating table and a an idler wheel above it on the top of the table might be used.
I am concerned that adding the necessary programmed motor systems to do what this simple system can do will much more complicated to develop and more expensive as well.
True. If the rubber cam wheel will drive the table....that is the way to go. A counter wheel on top or the other side (underside) might help the friction between the cam wheel and the tube. Very soft (sticky) rubber might help as well. The top and bottom wheels could form a pinching action on the table that will insure a good steady drive force.
 
  • #30
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junasiv: Can you tell us how automated you would like the operation to be. Will someone be operating and monitoring this system at all times while in use? How many hours per day do you expect the system will be in operation? Do you have any special operational or regulatory requirements. How about cleaning requirements? Any material restrictions or code requirements?
 
  • #31
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I'm seeing this get more and more complicated. I agree that either the feed rate or the RPM of the disc would need to change as the spiral grows (remember our old records - the speed of the stylus through the final was much greater at the outside edge of the record than those inner groves). This is basic trigonometry.

At this point, I think it would be far simpler, and far more flexible to build/buy an x-y table. That could be programmed to adjust the speed to match the (presumed) constant feed rate, and could be easily reprogrammed for different shapes and sizes. And if you change dough recipes, or anything else in the feeder, you could adjust the programming of the x-y table to match. You won't be constricted by purpose-built hardware. The dough might even change batch-batch or with temperature, you could have a program ask for a feed rate.

This looks pretty cool, I really think that once you get it working, you will want to make different shapes/sizes. Keep us up to date on your progress! I'm getting tempted to make one myself now.
 
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  • #32
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I'm also curious about the "12V actuator" for the dough. Is this a solenoid providing pressure, or a positive displacement type device? I really think you want something that provides a positive displacement, so you drive a set volume of dough per unit time. A motor/stepper-motor and threaded rod or lead screw would do it.
 
  • #33
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83
I'm seeing this get more and more complicated. I agree that either the feed rate or the RPM of the disc would need to change as the spiral grows (remember our old records - the speed of the stylus through the final was much greater at the outside edge of the record than those inner groves). This is basic trigonometry.

At this point, I think it would be far simpler, and far more flexible to build/buy an x-y table. That could be programmed to adjust the speed to match the (presumed) constant feed rate, and could be easily reprogrammed for different shapes and sizes. And if you change dough recipes, or anything else in the feeder, you could adjust the programming of the x-y table to match. You won't be constricted by purpose-built hardware. The dough might even change batch-batch or with temperature, you could have a program ask for a feed rate.

This looks pretty cool, I really think that once you get it working, you will want to make different shapes/sizes. Keep us up to date on your progress! I'm getting tempted to make one myself now.
That would be ideal but, I don’t think the OP has the where-with-all to pull that off. Right now he is somewhat MIA.
 
  • #34
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83
I'm also curious about the "12V actuator" for the dough. Is this a solenoid providing pressure, or a positive displacement type device? I really think you want something that provides a positive displacement, so you drive a set volume of dough per unit time. A motor/stepper-motor and threaded rod or lead screw would do it.
The OP has not provided any details on this, other than his image above.
 
  • #35
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junasiv: What country are you in? You might be able to visit a pastry shop and see the filler in action. I used one for years....they work great!
Hi AZFIREBALL,
I will check some store. I am from Sri Lanka.
 
  • #36
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Is the batter stiff enough not to flow by gravity? If it is very stiff, the supply container can be placed overhead. If it flows, due to gravity, it will need to be at table level or below and allow the pressure to move it through the tube, and out the nozzle. I would think it needs to be stiff so it does not flatten out too much on the table after being extruded and prior to being fried.
The batter is still enough to flow by gravity, but it won't fall like a straight line since it has some the star design around it. I guess it can go around the tube without breaking in to pieces. I will try adding a straw to test it out.
 
  • #37
13
0
I'm also curious about the "12V actuator" for the dough. Is this a solenoid providing pressure, or a positive displacement type device? I really think you want something that provides a positive displacement, so you drive a set volume of dough per unit time. A motor/stepper-motor and threaded rod or lead screw would do it.
Hi NTL2009,
Thanks for your ideas!
Sure I will keep you guys up to date on my progress. I am checking on the x-y table too, also thinking of adding arduino to sync the speed. Looks like acutator internally has the threaded screw. I will find out more on this.
 
  • #38
13
0
junasiv: Can you tell us how automated you would like the operation to be. Will someone be operating and monitoring this system at all times while in use? How many hours per day do you expect the system will be in operation? Do you have any special operational or regulatory requirements. How about cleaning requirements? Any material restrictions or code requirements?

Hi Azfireball,
Can you tell us how automated you would like the operation to be. Will someone be operating and monitoring this system at all times while in use?
Yes!. Because someone should be watching the shape and make sure it is spiral and the edges around it is sharp (star). Also If we separate the frying portion out of this, I can have this machine producing the dough spirals continuously and have many oil frying cookers. Another reason is, the dough gets harder if we keep out for sometimes, even the spirals. The dough is kind of made instantly during this process.

How many hours per day do you expect the system will be in operation?
It is kind of a low to medium level operation. So I guess the machine will operate 3-4 hours.

Do you have any special operational or regulatory requirements.
Not as such, but it is should adhere to the Food manufacturing standards, mostly Clean environment.

How about cleaning requirements?
The Dough cylinder is detachable. So it is a manual process to clean end of the day.

Any material restrictions or code requirements?
I am trying to avoid plastics touching the food. The food packing will have the paper insulated containers.
 
  • #39
206
83
Hi NTL2009,
Thanks for your ideas!
Sure I will keep you guys up to date on my progress. I am checking on the x-y table too, also thinking of adding arduino to sync the speed. Looks like acutator internally has the threaded screw. I will find out more on this.
junasiv:

If you can meet the expense of a X-Y table, that is the way to go; as it will illuminate the need for a lot of mechanical design/build effort.
 
  • #40
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junasiv:

If you can meet the expense of a X-Y table, that is the way to go; as it will illuminate the need for a lot of mechanical design/build effort.
Correction:
If you can meet the expense of a X-Y table, that is the way to go; as it will reduce the need for a lot of mechanical design/build effort.
 
  • #41
13
0
Hi AZFIREBALL,
I am checking some manual x-y tables and add the motors to make it auto.
Do you think of any other ideas without moving parts. I was thinking some kind of path/rail/slider from the nozzle which can make that spiral. Is this possible?

Thanks
 
  • #42
206
83
Yes. If you are skilled enough you could make the spirals by hand. Think about how you would decorate a cake with a spiral. Do you know how you might do that?
 

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