- #1

- 75

- 5

Considering that's no change in load, the increase of the field current of the rotor would imply in a change in the torque angle?

I need a detailed explanation e if possible a reference.

Thanks!

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- Thread starter ffp
- Start date

- #1

- 75

- 5

Considering that's no change in load, the increase of the field current of the rotor would imply in a change in the torque angle?

I need a detailed explanation e if possible a reference.

Thanks!

- #2

dlgoff

Science Advisor

Gold Member

- 4,320

- 2,592

Wouldn't a greater ﬁeld excitation increase the torque?

- #3

gerbi

Gold Member

- 179

- 13

In this case it's obvious, that changes of excitation field affects torque angle..

P=const. U=const. If=variab. Q=variab. -> variable reactive power means angle between stator and rotor fields must change -> theta=variab.

refereces ? use google, please..

constant torque on synchronous speed (from turbine or else) means constant real power. In this case the real part of stator current is constant, imaginaris part of stator current changes.

P=const. U=const. If=variab. Q=variab. -> variable reactive power means angle between stator and rotor fields must change -> theta=variab.

refereces ? use google, please..

Wouldn't a greater ﬁeld excitation increase the torque?

constant torque on synchronous speed (from turbine or else) means constant real power. In this case the real part of stator current is constant, imaginaris part of stator current changes.

Last edited:

- #4

- 75

- 5

How exactly reactive power affects the angle between rotor and stator field?

What is U?

Mathematically this could be proved with this formula:

P=3 Vt Ea sin(δ) / Xs

P=const. ; Ea increase with If; Vt increase with Ea; Xs= const. Then sin(δ) must decrease to maintain P constant and therefore, δ must also decrease.

Is that correct?

This could be proven with phasors diagram?

- #5

gerbi

Gold Member

- 179

- 13

How exactly reactive power affects the angle between rotor and stator field?

It would be rather, how angle affects power.. angle between fields is strictly connected with power. Angle between fields is the same angle as between stator current and voltage.

U is voltageWhat is U?

Make it simpler.. look for diagram that shows Torque angle vs Real Power for diffrent excitation currents..Mathematically this could be proved with this formula:

P=3 Vt Ea sin(δ) / Xs

P=const. ; Ea increase with If; Vt increase with Ea; Xs= const. Then sin(δ) must decrease to maintain P constant and therefore, δ must also decrease.

Is that correct?

If increases with Ea (exct. voltage), not vice versa ;)

It could be shown on phasor diagram, I have some but it's on paper and not in english.This could be proven with phasors diagram?

- #6

- 75

- 5

And how Vt behave?

When i said Ea increase with If i meant that Ea will increase because If increased...

There's any book that explains this? Didn't find on Chapman...

- #7

- 75

- 5

In this case it's obvious, that changes of excitation field affects torque angle..

P=const. U=const. If=variab.Q=variab. -> variable reactive power means angle between stator and rotor fields must change-> theta=variab.

refereces ? use google, please..

constant torque on synchronous speed (from turbine or else) means constant real power. In this case the real part of stator current is constant, imaginaris part of stator current changes.

I didn't understand the marqued sentence. Could you explain it better?

Or post the phasor diagram?

- #8

gerbi

Gold Member

- 179

- 13

Guess You can't wait till Monday..

First one, phasors for steady state (constant voltage, constant real power). The line A1-A-A2 is constant real power line. You move from A1 (overexcited) to A2 (underexcited). Theta is torque angle.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3142/unledduw.jpg [Broken]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Second one. Changes of torque angle for different excitation currents (Iw). Stator voltage is constant. Assume constant torque or power (M (P)) and move from one characteristic to another (angle changes).

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7599/unled2jh.jpg [Broken]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

As for the marked text in post above: as I've said, angle between fields in machine is connected with angle between stator voltage and current (power factor). When you go from under excited to overexcited (sign for reactive power "Q" changes) the angle changes, power factor changes.

I hope that's clear now. As showed above, generator connected to the power grid is generating constant real power (supplied by constant torque from eg. steam turbine) on constant voltage and frequency. We achieve changes of reactive power generation by control of excitation current.

First one, phasors for steady state (constant voltage, constant real power). The line A1-A-A2 is constant real power line. You move from A1 (overexcited) to A2 (underexcited). Theta is torque angle.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3142/unledduw.jpg [Broken]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Second one. Changes of torque angle for different excitation currents (Iw). Stator voltage is constant. Assume constant torque or power (M (P)) and move from one characteristic to another (angle changes).

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7599/unled2jh.jpg [Broken]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

As for the marked text in post above: as I've said, angle between fields in machine is connected with angle between stator voltage and current (power factor). When you go from under excited to overexcited (sign for reactive power "Q" changes) the angle changes, power factor changes.

I hope that's clear now. As showed above, generator connected to the power grid is generating constant real power (supplied by constant torque from eg. steam turbine) on constant voltage and frequency. We achieve changes of reactive power generation by control of excitation current.

Last edited by a moderator:

- #9

- 75

- 5

Thank you very much.I finally understood. Could you tell me the source of the images?

- #10

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