Tax racing fuel heavily

  • #1
Loren Booda
3,119
4
NASCAR is annoying enough, without the figure that over 5% of the nation's gasoline supply (a large percentage of what we are forced to import) is wasted on the non-sport of auto racing. It's time we taxed some sensibility into this American-antithetical conspicuous consumption.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
cronxeh
Gold Member
1,004
10
i always thought nascar is the most retarded thing to watch or even enjoy

let alone participate in
 
  • #3
hitssquad
926
0
Loren Booda said:
over 5% of the nation's gasoline supply [...] is wasted on the non-sport of auto racing.
Could you show your math, please?
 
  • #4
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
8,010
1,004
I say tax all sports right through the roof...say a 100% tax tacked onto all sales. Taxing gas for Nascar, say $5 - $50 per gallon, is a no brainer in my book.
 
  • #5
TheStatutoryApe
260
4
We could just ban auto racing. We could ban it on the grounds of emissions and useless consumption of resources.
I have a friend who would hate it though.
 
  • #6
cronxeh
Gold Member
1,004
10
You know its a funny thing to say, but if i was ever going to become a mass murder, id probably start off by whacking every NASCAR driver, executive, fan, investor, and employee. Why go easy on people these days? We go to war against terrorists, dont we? Well if you do some calculations and optimization here, you'll see the aforementioned people are far worse than terrorists.

And no, I am not joking.
 
  • #7
Loren Booda
3,119
4
hitssquad,

Unfortunately, it's more my memory than math. Maybe someone could dredge up the actual statistics for me.

Aside: Mercedes pulled out of racing for forty years after one of their cars exploded in the grandstands, killing more than 300 spectators.
 
  • #8
Pengwuino
Gold Member
5,124
17
Loren Booda said:
NASCAR is annoying enough, without the figure that over 5% of the nation's gasoline supply (a large percentage of what we are forced to import) is wasted on the non-sport of auto racing. It's time we taxed some sensibility into this American-antithetical conspicuous consumption.

.... since every SUV in this country combined supposedly consumes 10% of the nations gasoline.... i REALLY think your figure is off.

While we're at it, lets ban all protests because cars have to stop when the streets are blocked off. How bout movies? Cars have to drive there and all movies suck now-a-days. How bout banning books too, cant hurt trees. All schools should be banned as well, those parking lots are a death trap. Hey lets shut down the internet, it uses quite a lot of power.

Lets also call for the murder of everyone who enjoys Pepsi. Consumer freedom is bad and it takes gas to produce pepsi. Why not people who enjoy carls jr? Death to them, they drive. Hell since I dont like Panda Express, death to every asian. How bout that. I mean we might as well since we're calling for the murder of people who enjoy something we don't enjoy.
 
Last edited:
  • #9
Kakarot
60
0
how is it 5%? that cant be right. and taxing sports is a good idea, especially ones that pay the players like $100 million a year
 
  • #10
loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
1,802
5
The highest salary in all of professional sports belongs to Alex Rodriguez, but who is making an average of about $25 million a year over the length of a ten-year contract. Athletes make far more off of endorsements than they do off of salary. They are also already in the highest tax-brackets, and since they aren't business owners (generally speaking), they can't shelter their earnings as easily as many other big-time earners. If you don't like it, don't watch their sports and don't buy the products they endorse. Where do you think the money is coming from?

Jesus Christ, where do you people get off? Yeah, let's tax the hell out of and then kill everyone affiliated with NASCAR because we don't see the point of it as a sport.
 
  • #11
hypatia
1,189
9
I am a race fan, all kinds of races, including NASCAR, Indy, 1/4 mile track and yes even some street racing. I enjoy building cars that go fast, and I work hard{12 hour days} and have the right to spend my time and money how I choose, without idiots thinking I should die for it.
Racing fule is taxed{ i know, I buy it}, and so is my ticket.
 
  • #12
gravenewworld
1,127
25
I also have the right to buy a Hummer and get 5 mi/gallon. Screw the environment because this is the USA. I have the right to do whatever I want.
 
  • #13
hypatia
1,189
9
I can't think of any country that bans/limits any kind of car.
 
  • #14
loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
1,802
5
The taxation of gasoline in many European countries is so exaggerated that it would be virtually impossible for most people to drive as much there as in the US. Of course, the cities are also smaller and commutes shorter, so there isn't as much of a need to drive.
 
  • #15
russ_watters
Mentor
21,853
8,816
loseyourname said:
The highest salary in all of professional sports belongs to Alex Rodriguez, but who is making an average of about $25 million a year over the length of a ten-year contract. Athletes make far more off of endorsements than they do off of salary. They are also already in the highest tax-brackets, and since they aren't business owners (generally speaking), they can't shelter their earnings as easily as many other big-time earners. If you don't like it, don't watch their sports and don't buy the products they endorse. Where do you think the money is coming from?

Jesus Christ, where do you people get off? Yeah, let's tax the hell out of and then kill everyone affiliated with NASCAR because we don't see the point of it as a sport.
Amen, brother.

Gawd, I love freedom and democracy, don't you?
 
  • #16
FredGarvin
Science Advisor
5,088
10
I have a hard time believing the 5% usage number. Given the latest number I saw of the US using 400,000,000 gallons a day, I don't think Jeff Gordon et al are using 20 million gallons a day.

Personally, I would much rather create a huge uproar and increase the luxury taxes on fuels used in recreational boats/yachts. In my neck of the woods, I see people fill up monstorously huge boats with $300 in gas a day just to go out and drive in circles. That doesn't include the other environmental damage they do by polluting the waters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
 
  • #17
russ_watters
Mentor
21,853
8,816
hypatia said:
I can't think of any country that bans/limits any kind of car.
What do you mean by "limits"? The US has pretty strict safety and efficiency standards...
 
  • #18
primal schemer
54
0
Ivan Seeking said:
I say tax all sports right through the roof...say a 100% tax tacked onto all sales.

Are you serious? Why on earth would you want to tax all sports?? Surely you would want to encourage people to take part in sports!! Apart from the obvious health benefits, sports have so many social-skill and character building benefits.

PS
 
  • #19
hypatia
1,189
9
russ_watters said:
What do you mean by "limits"? The US has pretty strict safety and efficiency standards...
That was in response to Gravenwoods "right to because I'm American" message. I was referring to size of car and how much gas it burns.
 
  • #20
cronxeh
Gold Member
1,004
10
Any 4th year mechanical engineering student could come up with a NASCAR car design - it doesnt take that much of intelligence these days. But to come up with a Toyota Prius that gets 50 mpg actually does, and shows a thing or two about human accomplishments these days.

I dont see how taking out most of NASCAR is a problem in my Ethics books.. let me double check.. nope, still cool with it.
 
  • #21
Curious3141
Homework Helper
2,858
88
Loren Booda said:
NASCAR is annoying enough, without the figure that over 5% of the nation's gasoline supply (a large percentage of what we are forced to import) is wasted on the non-sport of auto racing. It's time we taxed some sensibility into this American-antithetical conspicuous consumption.

I'm not a fan of NASCAR per se, but I love motorsports in general. I have a problem with anyone who considers all motor racing to be a "non-sport". I can assure you that top F1 drivers have fitness levels that top fighter pilots can only dream of. Apart from demanding great physical fitness, top level motorsports test reflexes, quick thinking, endurance and courage. And the ability of a race team to come up with a sound pit strategy, modifying it on the fly to fit evolving race conditions and happenings.

I think it's a great sport. If you can't appreciate it, then that's your shortcoming.
 
  • #22
Loren Booda
3,119
4
I've had friends with souped up cars (el Camino and Camero respectively) pushing 400 HP each. Believe it, the former could pull a wheelie. All I am saying is that the cost of performance fuel (for any engine of excess) should reflect the necessity of its use. Nature will take its course in any case.

Andretti 1

Environment 0
 
  • #23
Echo 6 Sierra
25
1
Curious3141 said:
I can assure you that top F1 drivers have fitness levels that top fighter pilots can only dream of.
...uhhhhh, no. Unless their cars can go 2x the speed of sound or more and they can play "duck, dodge, and hide" while someone shoots guided missiles at them.

Curious3141 said:
Apart from demanding great physical fitness, top level motorsports test reflexes, quick thinking, endurance and courage.

Go fast, turn left. AND they shouldn't be TESTING their whatever when they do it. They should already have them before they climb behind the wheel.
 
  • #24
GOD__AM
210
0
Raising taxes on racing gas will just be passed on to the consumer. All major auto manufactures spend tons of money to win races so you will buy their cars. Not to mention that the technology gained from racing means we get better vehicles. Do you really think these manufacturers are going to cut the cooperate salaries to pay the increased taxes...I don't.
 
  • #25
GOD__AM
210
0
hypatia said:
I can't think of any country that bans/limits any kind of car.

Japan has very strict laws regarding high performance vehicles. I'm not familiar with the laws regarding cars, but motorcycles over 500cc are nearly impossible to get in japan. They actually have whole classes of small cc motors that don't even get imported to speed hungry americans.
 
  • #26
TRCSF
60
0
5%? I'd think that the fans driving to the race track would consume more gross gasoline then the NASCAR race itself. Although I suppose if you add up all professional and amateur racing you'd get a disgustingly high number.

Frankly, I think NASCAR is as boring as hell. If there should be a popular racing sport, it should be fat guys racing go-carts. Much more fuel effecient. But that's just my opinion.

Incidently, I've seen news reports of gas costing $3.90 per gallon, regular unleaded, in Michigan. Mid three dollar range in other places. I've also heard a lot of anecdotal reports of gas stations literally running out of gas, all over the country. There's talk of rationing.
 
  • #27
Andy
69
11
god some people are stupid. I dream about having a car that only does 4mpg. And the toyota prius 50mpg? thats pretty crap really, i have been in mercedes benz diesels that have got 60mpg and thats with me driving it with a heavy foot! apparently voltswagen diesels are even better and can easily get 70mpg.
 
  • #28
cronxeh
Gold Member
1,004
10
Andy said:
god some people are stupid. I dream about having a car that only does 4mpg. And the toyota prius 50mpg? thats pretty crap really, i have been in mercedes benz diesels that have got 60mpg and thats with me driving it with a heavy foot! apparently voltswagen diesels are even better and can easily get 70mpg.


Hey thanks thats a great point

http://www.distributiondrive.com/Article10.html

If the number of diesel vehicles in private use went from less than 10% to over 60% of the private US vehicle fleet, mirroring European diesel engine adoption rates, we would see a 25% reduction in the amount of oil used in the US.
 
  • #29
GOD__AM
210
0
Andy said:
god some people are stupid. I dream about having a car that only does 4mpg. And the toyota prius 50mpg? thats pretty crap really, i have been in mercedes benz diesels that have got 60mpg and thats with me driving it with a heavy foot! apparently voltswagen diesels are even better and can easily get 70mpg.

As stated this is a good point. I remember when diesel was much cheaper than regular leaded gasoline. It takes less refining to make diesel fuel also but the cost of the fuel has risen higher than regular unleaded in this day and age. One more way cooperate america has exploited the american public into paying more for a cheeper product. They pass on the loss of revenue to the consumer.
 
  • #30
Andy
69
11
Diesel cars can be fast aswell, rumour hs it that mercedes a releasing a new 4 litre V8 bi turbo diesel engine in the SL class that has a 0-60mph time of about 5 seconds, think it was 5.1 seconds. But that was faster than the 5 litre V8 currently used in the SL500 petrol. Won't stop motor racing as we know it though, just mean that there will be a new class for diesel entries to compete in.
 
  • #31
cronxeh
Gold Member
1,004
10
The only problem is the cost benefit. Consider Toyota Prius - a new car would run you about $20000, and compared to any diesel version of a European car, it will always be cheaper.

Consdering $20k + 50mpg vs $70k + 70 mpg or $500k + 230 mpg I would probably go for $20k + 50 mpg for a few years.. yep.
 
  • #32
mattmns
1,118
6
This reminds me of a joke I once heard on a comedy show. It went something like: "I didn't get NASCAR racing until I met some NASCAR fans. Then I could see how a shiny car going around in circles could fascinate them."
 
  • #33
GOD__AM
210
0
cronxeh said:
The only problem is the cost benefit. Consider Toyota Prius - a new car would run you about $20000, and compared to any diesel version of a European car, it will always be cheaper.

Consdering $20k + 50mpg vs $70k + 70 mpg or $500k + 230 mpg I would probably go for $20k + 50 mpg for a few years.. yep.

And whats your point? Do you really think it costs more money to make a hi mileage diesel than a hi mileage gas engine? As gas prices get higher the difference in your example grows smaller. If everyone stopped buying gas engine cars the price of diesel fuel would climb even more as we consumed less product...
 
  • #34
russ_watters
Mentor
21,853
8,816
Curious3141 said:
I'm not a fan of NASCAR per se, but I love motorsports in general. I have a problem with anyone who considers all motor racing to be a "non-sport".
Whether it's a sport or not is utterly irrelevant here. One of the general freedoms on which the US is based is the pursuit of happiness. If pursuing racing (whether watching or participating) makes people happy, then they can - unless it harms those around them, and I think the general consensus is that it doesn't (the 5% seems dubius).

Just a quick off-the-cuff calculation: A big NASCAR race is 500 miles and has 42 cars. At 4mpg (estimate from some googling), that's 5,250 gallons per race. Even if there were a hundred similar races per day in the US, that'd be 525,000 - well short of Fred's 20 million estimate for 5%.
 
  • #35
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
8,010
1,004
As for the general argument, all sports are a luxury that should be taxed to the greatest extent possible. This is no different than alcohol, cigarettes, or lottery or gambling winnings. I also think we need to consider creating special taxes for things like parachutes, bikes, rock climbing gear, SCUBA gear, and any other sporting item that relates to costs to the general population. Isn't it fair that people pay for the increased risks and resulting costs [medical and insurance costs, as well as rescue efforts] to all of us that are associated with these activities.
 
Top