Ted Cruz, Bataan death march?

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  • #1
phinds
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Main Question or Discussion Point

Ted Cruz, in his marathon blather on the Senate floor, included ... well, here's a quote from a news source reporting his thanking the people who had put up with him:

But then, Cruz is a man with a modest view of his own historical importance. “I want to thank the men and women who have endured this Bataan death march,” he said as noon approached.
I find this deeply offensive to the memory of those who actually were ON the Bataan Death March. Does anyone here find this acceptable as a casual self-reference to his long-winded talk?
 

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  • #2
lisab
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He also compared anyone who is opposed to his point of view (defunding Obamacare) to Nazi appeasers.

I found his stunt to be entirely representative of the current state of our national politics: heavy on the grandstanding, a useless waste of time, and showing an utter lack of common sense.

It was the WORST TED TALK EVER :yuck:.
 
  • #3
russ_watters
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Yes. Just as football players are referred to as "warriors" and charity workers "crusaders".
 
  • #4
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A man from my home town survived the Bataan Death march, and three years in a POW camp. Frank broke his ankle during the march but kept on going or he would have been shot. The ankle never was treated but it eventually healed in a grotesque position. After the war the military wouldn't let him come home until he got his weight up to 80 pounds.

I was there when he came home. I was only six years old yet I remember seeing him that day. Frank was laughing and full of joy.

Cruz needs a serious reality check and there are going to be a lot of people who would like to give it to him.
 
  • #5
russ_watters
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Cruz needs a serious reality check....
I think you need a serious analogy check.
 
  • #6
russ_watters
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He also compared anyone who is opposed to his point of view (defunding Obamacare) to Nazi appeasers.
And to the Empire in Star Wars. That's just mean.
 
  • #7
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I think you need a serious analogy check.
No it is quite apparently Cruz who needs the analogy check unless the new norm is to be flippant about the grievous horrors those men went through.
 
  • #8
phinds
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I think you need a serious analogy check.
So are you saying that you approve of Cruz's analogy ?
 
  • #9
russ_watters
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So are you saying that you approve of Cruz's analogy ?
I'm saying people should not take seriously an analogy that was not meant to be serious.
 
  • #10
russ_watters
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No it is quite apparently Cruz who needs the analogy check unless the new norm is to be flippant about the grievous horrors those men went through.
I too have a friend who was in WWII. He was captured in The Battle of the Bulge. He's something like 6'2" tall and since he couldn't walk due to extreme malnourishment, the GI who rescued him picked him and a buddy up, one under each arm, to carry them to awaiting transportation.

Do I get upset every time an advertiser refers to weight loss as the Battle of the Bulge? No.

It isn't meant to be a literal comparison/equivalency, so the offense is just a figment of your imagination.

I am, however, offended by capricious offendedness.
 
  • #11
SteamKing
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You can sniff around the edges, but the big bag of gas known as Obamacare has yet to struggle off the ground. More than a few of its architects and builders have either covered their backsides (like the Congress) or want off the ship entirely (like the AFL-CIO). It also doesn't inspire confidence that its chief backer, the president himself, has been dispensing waivers left and right like a rider on a Mardi Gras float throwing beads into the crowd.

Delaying the business mandate for a year should raise the question, "I wonder what else is wrong with this monstrosity?", but, ever thus, people are a complacent lot, and their attention only becomes focused when they find themselves next in line at the chopping block. People are finding now that their work no longer offers health insurance, or their hours are being cut back, their personal insurance policies are being non-renewed, or they are being laid off altogether as we hurtle into the great unknown.

Obama hoped that health care reform would be his signature achievement. It may very well be, but like the French Revolution, it is too soon to tell if this achievement will redound to his credit, and what other far-reaching effects, intended and unintended, this legislation will have on the country.
 
  • #12
I'm saying people should not take seriously an analogy that was not meant to be serious.
I think the OP meant that the march was serious, not the analogy. However, it is a rather common analogy, like your Battle of the Bulge analogy. Perhaps there is some correlation between one's reaction to the analogy and one's stance on Obamacare.
 
  • #13
phinds
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You can sniff around the edges, but the big bag of gas known as Obamacare has yet to struggle off the ground. More than a few of its architects and builders have either covered their backsides (like the Congress) or want off the ship entirely (like the AFL-CIO). It also doesn't inspire confidence that its chief backer, the president himself, has been dispensing waivers left and right like a rider on a Mardi Gras float throwing beads into the crowd.

Delaying the business mandate for a year should raise the question, "I wonder what else is wrong with this monstrosity?", but, ever thus, people are a complacent lot, and their attention only becomes focused when they find themselves next in line at the chopping block. People are finding now that their work no longer offers health insurance, or their hours are being cut back, their personal insurance policies are being non-renewed, or they are being laid off altogether as we hurtle into the great unknown.

Obama hoped that health care reform would be his signature achievement. It may very well be, but like the French Revolution, it is too soon to tell if this achievement will redound to his credit, and what other far-reaching effects, intended and unintended, this legislation will have on the country.
I'm sure you needed to get that rant off your chest but clearly it has NOTHING to do with Ted Cruz's use of an offensive analogy.
 
  • #14
turbo
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I have a great deal of trouble getting though Cruzs' yammering. My father quit high school early to join the Airborne to fight WWII He broke his ankle on his first jump and ended up as a mechanic in a motor pool in Belgium. My father-in-law suffered from his imprisonment in the Pacific and died of malaria decades later. Our fathers dd not suffer in vain, nor should we let their struggles be taken in vain by politicians.
 
  • #15
russ_watters
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I think the OP meant that the march was serious, not the analogy. However, it is a rather common analogy, like your Battle of the Bulge analogy. Perhaps there is some correlation between one's reaction to the analogy and one's stance on Obamacare.
That's not how I read it:

If the analogy is meant to be serious, then it is delusional and wrong and therefore offensive because it is delusional and wrong. That's my understanding of the problem people have with it and if the premise is correct, I agree with the conclusion. The constant references to football players as "warriors" seem intentional to me and make me cringe a little every time I hear one (but only a little).

But if the analogy is meant as a joke (purposely overexaggerated), then the joke is on him, not them. It is self-deprecating. It makes no sense to be offended by someone making fun of himself.

I agree that the sides people tend to take on such things are often based on their political afilliation.
 
  • #16
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There were many other events that Cruz could have compared this so called 21 hour ordeal to. The childish mindless Dr. Seuss and Star Wars drivel of the speech were understandable considering the source.

To compare the suffering of those who had listened to it to the Bataan Death March was ludicrous.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/ted-cruz-compares-his-21-hour-speech-to-baatan-death-march

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March

I think my opinion on this is based more on the fact that I am old enough to remember when these men came home during my formative years. I can't simply hit the delete button on those memories. No one should.
 
  • #17
phinds
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I think my opinion on this is based more on the fact that I am old enough to remember when these men came home during my formative years. I can't simply hit the delete button on those memories. No one should.
Yes, you have exactly understood my objection to the anaology. I never believed that even Cruz was so stupid as to make the analogy seriously, but to make it even as a self-deprecating joke is offensive to me. This kind of casual reference to serious subjects is way beyond moronic, it is an assault on human dignity.
 
  • #18
Pythagorean
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Perhaps there is some correlation between one's reaction to the analogy and one's stance on Obamacare.
Seconded. I'm rather impartial to both since I have no clue what either entails, really.
 
  • #19
SteamKing
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Well, I'm sure if you stood up for 21 hours straight with limited breaks while speaking about any given subject you would make a few slips. Was it stupid and unnecessary to refer to the Death March? Sure. Did this slip totally negate all that Cruz said prior to this point? I doubt it. Just my 2 cents.
 
  • #20
lisab
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Let's bring up the caliber of this discussion, please.
 
  • #21
russ_watters
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This kind of casual reference to serious subjects is way beyond moronic, it is an assault on human dignity.
Let me repeat that back to you just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: you're saying that you consider any causal reference to a serious subject to be offensive? Is that correct?
 
  • #22
Student100
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There's no logic in politics Russ, it's entirely emotional based these days, perhaps it has been for quite sometime.
He obviously wasn't implying the analogy literally in the context, yet it's still offensive to those who want to be offended.
 
  • #23
russ_watters
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There's no logic in politics Russ, it's entirely emotional based these days, perhaps it has been for quite sometime.
He obviously wasn't implying the analogy literally in the context, yet it's still offensive to those who want to be offended.
It doesn't need to be logical, but it does need to be consistent and the criteria for being offended seems to me to be so broad as to cause offended-ness at a very high frequency.
 
  • #24
phinds
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Let me repeat that back to you just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: you're saying that you consider any causal reference to a serious subject to be offensive? Is that correct?
I'm saying that anything that trivializes human suffering is offensive.
 
  • #25
turbo
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I'm saying that anything that trivializes human suffering is offensive.
I agree. I watched my father-in-law die from malaria and diabetes. He spent years of his life building airstrips in SE Asia to help the US manage fighter/bomber strikes against Japan. The diabetes had a large part in his demise, but the ongoing, wracking symptoms of malaria beat the crap out of him.

He was a very tough guy, and it was sad to see him go. He worked for my grandfather as a heavy-equipment mechanic as long as he was able to work.
 

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