Telepathy experience

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  • #1
Dwalaine

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Hello physics forum

I wanted to describe an experience that I view as evidence for telepathy. I'm not a troll (even though I registered just to write this).

I was six years old and visiting my grandparents country house. They had a large garden of about an acre. One day my grandfather went out with his tractor lawn mower. My brother and I took turns sitting on his lap while he was mowing the grass. At one point, I was running towards the tractor and slipped on the cut grass, ending up with my right foot under the tractor. The blades cut a strap on the sandal I was wearing, but missed my foot by millimeters.

My grandfather stopped the tractor and all three of us stood there in disbelief and shock. As we were about go back to the house, I saw my grandmother with a very worried look on her face coming to check on us. She said "Your mom just called and told me to check up on you guys, she was sure something terrible had happened."
 
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  • #2
Dotini
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I wanted to describe an experience that I view as evidence for telepathy.
Hi Dwalaine. Welcome to the Physics Forum and thank you for your post.

Unfortunately, even though your experience is interesting, may have really happened just as you described, and similar experiences have been reported by many others, it cannot be accepted as evidence of telepathy, certainly not according to the rules of this forum as I understand them. It must remain a charming anecdote.

The "scientific" literature on Psi is very thin. If you are motivated to explore what little of it I am aware of, you might take a look at some of the books written by Dean Radin.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
  • #3
Evo
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Hi Dwalaine. Welcome to the Physics Forum and thank you for your post.

Unfortunately, even though your experience is interesting, may have really happened just as you described, and similar experiences have been reported by many others, it cannot be accepted as evidence of telepathy, certainly not according to the rules of this forum as I understand them. It must remain a charming anecdote.

The "scientific" literature on Psi is very thin. If you are motivated to explore what little of it I am aware of, you might take a look at some of the books written by Dean Radin.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
I wouldn't read Dean Radin, his work is not considered scientific by his peers. Just one of many critiques. http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=537
 
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  • #4
Dotini
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...his work is not considered scientific by his peers.
If by "peers" it is meant other scientific experimentalists in an array of fields, then undoubtedly Radin is a very marginal figure. But compared to the general run of muck in the literary genre of the paranormal, he could be judged a rare tower of probity. :)

I am not aware of any work that is considered valid science in this field, but I would like to know of any.

Just for fun, here is a NY Times review of Radin. http://www.deanradin.com/nytimes_hires_f.html


Respectfully,
Steve
 
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  • #5
DaveC426913
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"In a world as vastly complex as ours, the only event that would be astonishingly unlikely to happen is for fabulous coincidences to not happen."
-DaveC426913 0201110


You've lived how many decades? and in all that time you haven't had a second example of an astonishingly unlikely coincidence.

Statistically, giant coincidences - like giant meteors and giant earthquakes - have to happen occasionally.
 
  • #6
You left out information.
Did you go to your grandfathers the same morning??

Are you or were you prone to getting yourself hurt at the age??

Your mother may simply been seeing a pattern related to you and got worried and called;due to a pattern of behavior at the time, and her worry, it conforms to coincidence.

The human mind has some great observational power. More often than not such experiences can be wrote off as coincidence.
Especially as a kid it is easy to justify such coincidences as more than such.
 
  • #7
Evo
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You might want to read an objectic review of the lack of science used by Radin.

http://www.skepdic.com/refuge/radin6.html

I have a whole list. He's been discussed here many times, perhaps it's time to put him on the banned topics list since his institute of Noetic Sciences publishes a study guide to What the bleep on their site which *is* on our banned topics list.

About a year and a half ago I wrote here about going to see the movie What the Bleep Do We Know?, a rather spectacularly stupid and lunatic film which extensively misuses quantum mechanics. This weekend, a sequel called What the BLEEP – Down the Rabbit Hole opened here in New York, and I figured I owed it to my readers to check out the this new movie.

The new material includes interviews with a crackpot parapsychologist (Dean Radin, from the “Institute of Noetic Sciences”), and a crackpot journalist (Lynne McTaggart).
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=342
 
  • #8
DaveC426913
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The identical thing happened to me when I was 17.

I went to a friend's farm. It was just the two of us in a shack for two weeks. No phone, no car.

One morning we woke up and half of his dozen goats were dead. We had to hoof it into town (a two hour walk) to try desperately to find a country vet open on a weekend.

Out of the blue, my mother showed up with with car, saying she just had a feeling we might need her help and decided to make the hour drive.

(I of course put no credence in a mother's instinct to let her son go to a deserted farm for two weeks, wait patiently through the first week, then decide that the weekend would be a good time to drop in to see if everything was all right. :wink: )
 
  • #9
Dwalaine
You left out information.
Did you go to your grandfathers the same morning??
I do not remember the other circumstances clearly.

Are you or were you prone to getting yourself hurt at the age??
No.

Your mother may simply been seeing a pattern related to you and got worried and called;due to a pattern of behavior at the time, and her worry, it conforms to coincidence.
My original post wasn't completely clear on this point, but she freaked out. She also told me afterwards that "she knew something terrible had happened", so it wasn't a routine call of an overly protective mom. She has never freaked out like that again.
 
  • #10
"She also told me afterwards that "she knew something terrible had happened","

Strangely enough the panic of the moment can be easily related to the phone call itself. It is always after the fact it was supposedly thought of, or reacted before.

Were as to you all this many seem real and since today you are even further away from the event, it is simply easier to accept as you do.

Since it is such you do not do such every day, there is no reason to argue it.
An event happened that I am sure scared you, and of course your mother when she happened to call and found out it happened.
How you view such today if your are satisfied with it needs not be changed.

Yet you placed your experience on a board that has people that can easily dissect such an event, and show how it can be an everyday thing without telepathy, or some other form of divine intervention.

I see the lack of injury as the greatest part of the event, and how you view the rest as unimportant. I see the whole situation as chance and luck including your mom's call, you see it differently. Yet no mater how you or I and others may view it; the result was good.
 
  • #11
Dwalaine
Yet you placed your experience on a board that has people that can easily dissect such an event, and show how it can be an everyday thing without telepathy, or some other form of divine intervention.
In that short description, there's enough room for interpretation and fantasy to accommodate whatever position one feels comfortable with.

Reality is a different thing. Having experienced it, my position is that I would be lying to myself if I said that it wasn't telepathy.

To each their own. I see no need for anyone to change their opinion.
 
  • #12
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I remember having this dream about a woman who worked in this shop I use to go to. In the dream she couldn't serve me because she was lying down in pain, and was pregnant.

I told her about the dream. Before I didn't know she was pregnant, but I told her in my dream she was. She said she was pregnant and was having complications. I was stunned.
 
  • #13
phinds
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... my position is that I would be lying to myself if I said that it wasn't telepathy
As long as you don't plan on going into a career in science, that's fine for you, but you really should give some more thought to the quote that Dave provided in post #5. He's quoting himself apparently, but Carl Sagan and others have said the same thing. It really isn't telepathy and science doesn't work on anecdotal evidence, but again, if you're not going into science, you can believe any nonsense you like.
 
  • #14
Evo
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Reality is a different thing. Having experienced it, my position is that I would be lying to myself if I said that it wasn't telepathy.
The rules here are that you can tell an anecdote but you cannot make claims as to what happened.
 
  • #15
DaveC426913
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Are you or were you prone to getting yourself hurt at the age??
No.
Your mom may have a different take on that. :smile:

the quote that Dave provided in post #5. He's quoting himself apparently, but Carl Sagan and others have said the same thing.
No fair. I made it up on-the-spot. I was quite pleased with it.
 
  • #16
DaveC426913
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Reality is a different thing. Having experienced it, my position is that I would be lying to myself if I said that it wasn't telepathy.
What makes you conclude it's telepathy? How can you rule out coincidence?

To each their own. I see no need for anyone to change their opinion.
Ah but once you voice your opinion, you open it to challenge, and you are obliged to defend it.
 
  • #17
phinds
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No fair. I made it up on-the-spot. I was quite pleased with it.
Great minds think alike :smile:
 
  • #18
phinds
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The rules here are that you can tell an anecdote but you cannot make claims as to what happened.
Unless you can support them with hard evidence, of which you, Dwalaine, have offered none.

There have been LOTS of experiences like yours and those that have them, especially those that have no experience with or belief in, the scientific method, are invariably forcibly struck by how REAL the apparent miraculousness of the event was. I once again refer you to Dave's quote.

EDIT: by the way, none of here are trying to be rude to you or hard on you, it's just that we think in scientific terms and you are clearly NOT thinking in those terms ... you are convinced by what to us is clearly anecdotal evidence of a coincidence.
 
  • #19
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Feynman has an example of this (I think in Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman.) He had an experience where a thought came into his head that his grandmother had died. The phone rang. It was unrelated, and his grandmother was fine.

He made a mental note to always remember this "failure," in case it ever came out the other way.

Yes, page 130.
 
  • #20
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Unless you can support them with hard evidence, of which you, Dwalaine, have offered none.

There have been LOTS of experiences like yours and those that have them, especially those that have no experience with or belief in, the scientific method, are invariably forcibly struck by how REAL the apparent miraculousness of the event was. I once again refer you to Dave's quote.

EDIT: by the way, none of here are trying to be rude to you or hard on you, it's just that we think in scientific terms and you are clearly NOT thinking in those terms ... you are convinced by what to us is clearly anecdotal evidence of a coincidence.
Thing is, it could have been an incidence of telepathy. The fact that remarkable coincidences happen frequently doesn't disprove that any given example was telepathy, it just proves it doesn't have to have been telepathy, that there's a excellent alternative mechanism.

It's fine to be adamant that it could easily have been coincidence, but to be sure it wasn't telepathy is just confirmation bias. Nothing can be proved either way. You have no evidence whatsoever it was merely a coincidence just as the OP has no evidence whatsoever it was telepathy.

If the OP is being unscientific by saying it had to have been telepathy and couldn't have been coincidence then the opposite stand, that it had to have been coincidence and couldn't have been telepathy is equally unscientific.

By Occam's Razor the hypothesis it was a coincidence is to be preferred. Coincidence is a known quantity. Telepathy is unknown. That's the extent of it: coincidence must be the preferred explanation.
 
  • #21
FlexGunship
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The blades cut a strap on the sandal I was wearing, but missed my foot by millimeters.

[...]

She said "Your mom just called and told me to check up on you guys, she was sure something terrible had happened."
Your mom was wrong. Your foot was fine. At best this is counter-evidence. Unless you count the destruction of a sandal was "terrible," in which case your mother must lead a life of extreme anxiety.

EDIT: In the Feynman tradition, you should remember this "failure" of telepathy should you ever have a "success." Your telepathy scorecard should currently read "-1," and if you ever experience a more compelling example of telepathy you scorecard should read "0."

DOUBLE EDIT:
phinds said:
EDIT: by the way, none of here are trying to be rude to you or hard on you, it's just that we think in scientific terms and you are clearly NOT thinking in those terms ... you are convinced by what to us is clearly anecdotal evidence of a coincidence.
 
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  • #22
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Just the other day I was going for a walk with my mother and we were talking about some family issues that surrounded her aunt's recent passing. Not a minute after we started talking about it her cousin was making a left turn as we were crossing the street, he basically whispered my mother's name in her ear as he drove by. He made a U-turn and we conversed for a while. It turns out that he had made 2 wrong turns to get to the same intersection as us, and my mother was astonished. She was convinced that it was her aunt who had influenced the meeting, as her cousin was able to offer her peace of mind (my mother didn't get to visit her aunt before the death). If we had crossed the street seconds earlier or seconds later, or her cousin had made the right turn instead of the left, that encounter would never have happened. But think of every second of every day that passes by and an encounter like this doesn't happen. Humans have a general tendency to attribute coincidence to the supernatural. We are easily wooed by stories of fantastical nature, as they spice life up. I feel similarly about religion, as it gives its followers security and comfort. The problem with believing in the supernatural is that there is motive to. In general the people that believe in this kind of thing also like the idea of it. People who believe in God like the idea of God and his proposed benevolence. It's just not objective enough to be science.
 
  • #23
phinds
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If the OP is being unscientific by saying it had to have been telepathy and couldn't have been coincidence then the opposite stand, that it had to have been coincidence and couldn't have been telepathy is equally unscientific.
Much as I hate to, I have to agree w/ you in this case. When you're right, your're right.

Still, I think you're bending over backwards to be scientifically proper and you are giving the OP some hope that he might be right. I DETEST this kind of belief in coincidence far more than the rules of the forum allow me to say in a straightforward way (a great many expetives get brought in :smile:) so I do have to admit that I am less inclined to be scientifically proper, as you are being, in THIS case. This kind of stupidity is one of my hot buttons and other than this sentence, I think I have restrained myself admirably so far.
 
  • #24
FlexGunship
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If the OP is being unscientific by saying it had to have been telepathy and couldn't have been coincidence then the opposite stand, that it had to have been coincidence and couldn't have been telepathy is equally unscientific.
Much as I hate to, I have to agree w/ you in this case. When you're right, your're right.
I disagree a bit. In the instance of claiming telepathy, you must invent a new aspect of the universe to aid in explanation. In the instance of claiming coincidence, no such invention is necessary.

Fundamentally, claiming telepathy, claiming divine intervention, and claiming little green men helped in this case are not strikingly different. In each case you are using an outside "unknown" meta-actor to explain something that you perceive as being beyond coincidence.
 
  • #25
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I disagree a bit. In the instance of claiming telepathy, you must invent a new aspect of the universe to aid in explanation. In the instance of claiming coincidence, no such invention is necessary.

Fundamentally, claiming telepathy, claiming divine intervention, and claiming little green men helped in this case are not strikingly different. In each case you are using an outside "unknown" meta-actor to explain something that you perceive as being beyond coincidence.
I agree. He has proposed a process with no evidence to support the existence of that process.
 

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